WHO IS STAYING? (ANSWER: Green, Richards, Washington, Baker)

[Joneslab]

Looking foward down the road, let's hope the next coach can recruit at a high level and also build a program with great role players surrounded by the superstar talents. I used to think you absolutely could not win without 5 stars and that still holds true for the most part but look at all these mid level teams with 2-4 star players who not only compete with the big boys, but actually win games.

That's not where Kentucky needs to be.

You can recruit high four-star/five-star players and not lose them all like this. Other programs do it.

If Kentucky gets into the game of recruiting like mid-majors we'll be right back where we were in the latter part of Tubby's tenure. You have to have great players. But you also have to find a way to keep the not-so-great players in school so that when they get into their twenties they have a shot at being great.

That's doable. In fact John Calipari himself was doing some of that early on. It seems with the last two teams though that things have slipped and we aren't getting many great players AND we're losing the not-so-great players.

Not good.

[Joneslab]

Of the starters on the last two national champions, six of the ten were former five star players. Nine of the ten were either four star or five star players.

Villanova 2018
Jalen Brunson - Five Star
Mikal Bridges - Four Star
Phil Booth - Four Star
Eric Paschall - Three Star
Omari Spellman - Five Star

North Carolina 2017
Joel Berry - Four Star
Theo Pinson - Five Star
Justin Jackson - Five Star
Isaiah Hicks - Five Star
Kennedy Meeks - Five Star

[Catatonic]

That's an indication that things just are not working in the system you've created.

Or an indication that, ya know, stuff happens.

At this point I only visit this forum when I need a reprieve from the more rational positivity of my social media feeds. You'd think we were just denied a bid to the NIT the way people post here.

[Joneslab]

Or an indication that, ya know, stuff happens.

Well sure.

If we're going to go the "stuff happens" route that could be a response to everything.

I tend to think bleeding players at this rate is pretty alarming. As I do the fact that he isn't recruiting like he was.

Because that sort of wasn't the deal when Calipari signed on. I'm sure you remember as well, but I remember the whole "I was brought here because I can recruit the best of the best" speech.

Do you think Cal felt like he would miss out on all these elite players and be losing entire rosters when he said that?

Because I don't. And I'd say in his heart of hearts he's fairly concerned. This is likely why he's been all over the place this spring trying to hit 2019 as hard as humanly possible.

[Joneslab]

Matt Jones‏ @KySportsRadio 40s41 seconds agoSource tells KSR that Calipari met yesterday with Quade Green to tell him he wants Green to return and be a leader for next year’s team

[Catatonic]

Well sure.

If we're going to go the "stuff happens" route that could be a response to everything.

I tend to think bleeding players at this rate is pretty alarming. As I do the fact that he isn't recruiting like he was.

Because that sort of wasn't the deal when Calipari signed on. I'm sure you remember as well, but I remember the whole "I was brought here because I can recruit the best of the best" speech.

Do you think Cal felt like he would miss out on all these elite players and be losing entire rosters when he said that?

Because I don't. And I'd say in his heart of hearts he's fairly concerned. This is likely why he's been all over the place this spring trying to hit 2019 as hard as humanly possible.

He's still recruiting the best of the best.

If we lose Quade it's because he's been recruited over with a slew of elite point guards. Same thing for Gabriel, albeit a different position. If we lose neither, then this was all an exercise in Chicken Little-ism. But do we not want our coaches to make the hard choices when push comes to shove? The way you guys talk about it it's like Cal can only make wrong moves.

[Joneslab]

If we lose Quade it's because he's been recruited over with a slew of elite point guards.

But I don't believe this is what's happening. Or at least it doesn't really tell the whole story.

If I thought Cal were just trying to go for an upgrade then that'd be one thing. This seems different. I think Quade--and Killeya-Jones, and guys like Briscoe and Humphries last year--are more about the system itself than Cal trying to upgrade.

Clearly there are better players than Quade Green out there. But Cal knows as well as anyone that you can't lose them all. And it looks like we might be on the precipice of something close to that.

I don't think that's Cal out there working the recruiting game and squeezing Quade out. I think what's happening here is that players are bailing once they feel like Kentucky has done all it can for them individually.

That's not a good precedent unless you're bringing in Anthony Davis every year. When you start whiffing on those top-of-the-top players like Cal has, you can't also lose any semblance of experience.

But STILL, though...still I think it's possible that we get a foundation back that may be enough to put us in contention.

[UK8STL11]

He's still recruiting the best of the best.

Receuting then yes, getting them to UK, no. Not even close. What “best of the best” players has he gotten recently? It’s a pretty small list.

Look at two of the past three seasons.

[Los Gatos]

Which both are you referring to? Deron has two brothers Allen and Willie. Then there's the elder Feldhaus also named Allen.

Deron's father Allen Sr. Played for Rupp in about 58-62. I enrolled at UK in the fall of 61.

[Joneslab]

Receuting then yes, getting them to UK, no. Not even close.

Well, I'd say it's been close.

Knox and Shai were probably two of the 10 or 12 best freshmen in the game last year.

You'd hope Johnson and Hagans can be that this season.

So I think it's close...but the problem with close is that close will only work is if it's bolstered by experience.

You can win if you recruit like a madman. You'll compete for titles. I don't care what anybody says. Experience, no experience...freshmen can win at high levels.

But they have to absolutely be the right freshmen. Once there's even a minor slip in recruiting, then those freshmen become more normal. So they have to be eased into the college game by experience.

Once both go then it's untenable.

[Catatonic]

Receuting then yes, getting them to UK, no. Not even close. What “best of the best” players has he gotten recently? It’s a pretty small list.

Look at two of the past three seasons.

Look at your second sentence. But what have you done for us lately, Coach Cal?

All he can do is recruit and try to get them here. What are we gonna do, fire Cal and hire Coach K here? I'm really not trying to make enemies, but the entitlement of fan culture is immensely irritating.

[Joneslab]

I'm not sure folks want Cal fired.

I think it's more about being concerned with how things are shaping up, and the fact that the last two years have kind of mirrored each other in terms of people jumping out as soon as they can. Especially players who will not end up in the NBA.

You say you usually just talk to rational UK fans. Well, I don't know who you're talking to. I speak to a bunch of UK fans and almost every one is concerned about this to the point where it's become kind of the topic you launch into when you talk the Cats out in the real world.

To me this is a huge deal. Has nothing to do with firing the coach. It's more about the possibility of major slippage in the program.

[lilproUK98]

Of the starters on the last two national champions, six of the ten were former five star players. Nine of the ten were either four star or five star players.

Villanova 2018
Jalen Brunson - Five Star
Mikal Bridges - Four Star
Phil Booth - Four Star
Eric Paschall - Three Star
Omari Spellman - Five Star

North Carolina 2017
Joel Berry - Four Star
Theo Pinson - Five Star
Justin Jackson - Five Star
Isaiah Hicks - Five Star
Kennedy Meeks - Five Star

The big issue with KY basketball at the moment compared to those two teams is when you put the class next those players you have a bunch of sophomores, juniors, and seniors...

We'll see if the trend to leave school ASAP trickles down to programs like UNC, Villanova, Michigan State, etc...

[catfaninin]

The "best of the best" is no guarantee. Duke lost 8 games and made the Elite 8 last year. And I am more than willing to wager they don't win a championship next year either.

[Joneslab]

The "best of the best" is no guarantee. Duke lost 8 games and made the Elite 8 last year. And I am more than willing to wager they don't win a championship next year either.

There are no guarantees even if you assemble a superteam. Kentucky fans know that better than anyone.

But Duke lost on a last-second shot to get to the Final Four. That's a true case of "stuff happens," as Catatonic was saying above.

It's different when you lose 11 and get bumped in the Sweet Sixteen. And I'm not even arguing that that's a bad season. What is shocking is that we might go through that season only to have the roster just disperse.

I can only speak for myself, but I certainly don't want any guarantees. But I do want Kentucky in the best possible situation so we can contend. If your roster crumbles then you won't contend.