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Upset With Some Fans

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  • lilproUK98
    Senior Member
    • Nov 2014
    • 2472

    #136
    Originally posted by Downes Van Zandt

    I used to believe this, but not so much anymore. I agree that there’s always going to be a large swath of people who can’t or won’t be swayed, but I think the number of people who are open to opposing viewpoints is larger than you think.

    It happens here and there in our own political forum. Spirit frustrates me in there sometimes, but I’ll admit that he has also forced me to reconsider things on occasion. I’d rather do that than live in denial, ignorance, or hypocrisy.
    Maybe in our own political forum, but not in Washington DC anytime soon. One thing Trump was right about is, it is a swamp. Hopefully when all these dinosaurs die off things will change.

    Comment

    • Joneslab
      Senior Member
      • Oct 2014
      • 39604

      #137
      Originally posted by Westtncat
      Will. I know you have a lot of people talking to you. The point I tried to make is that if you believe white privilege exist then how does taking a knee fix it?
      It won’t. You’re right.

      But we aren’t that far removed from the brutality of civil rights. The world is so much better than it was 50 years ago, but there are deep stains and divisions in this country when it comes to race.

      I think protests like this jar people a little, which is the point of all protests. They definitely touch a nerve as we can see here. That doesn’t fix anything but it does get us into the conversation.

      Comment

      • Joneslab
        Senior Member
        • Oct 2014
        • 39604

        #138
        Originally posted by Spiritof96

        They aren't of equal weight. There is no discussion of the Washington thing because almost everyone thinks (even those who share some of the protesters views) that it was awful. We posted about it when it happened, everyone agreed and there was nothing left to say.
        Somebody needs to inform a couple fellas in this thread then. They seem to believe it was just a grand old time amongst patriots that was only marred by a couple hundred scofflaws.

        Comment

        • Spiritof96
          Senior Member
          • Oct 2014
          • 13503

          #139
          Originally posted by Will Lavender

          Somebody needs to inform a couple fellas in this thread then. They seem to believe it was just a grand old time amongst patriots that was only marred by a couple hundred scofflaws.
          I didn't read those posts that way.

          They agree that those who stormed the capitol and broke the law were wrong.

          Originally posted by John Stuart Mill
          ​He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that... He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them...he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.
          Originally posted by Robert “Hoot” Gibson
          No matter how bad things may seem, you can always make them worse.
          RIP: Charlie Munger​

          Comment

          • George
            Senior Member
            • Oct 2014
            • 10355

            #140
            Originally posted by Westtncat
            Will. I know you have a lot of people talking to you. The point I tried to make is that if you believe white privilege exist then how does taking a knee fix it? It's not an event or occurrence it just is. It's like taking a knee because LeBron James kids have more privilege than my kids. Unless you live in an ant colony there will always be privilege somewhere. It's like blind people taking a knee because others can see.
            LeBron James’ wealth isn’t a systemic problem, though. Racism is.

            When trying to understand the thing that many Black folks are protesting against, consider something Du Bois said (and I’m paraphrasing here): Black people had to wait about two hundred years before they were able to even begin to accumulate their own wealth, education, social standing — you name it. They’ve been socially handicapped since the day they were freed from bondage, and many feel (rightly so, in numerous ways) that A. not enough has been done to close that gap, and B. there are still a lot of people who would prefer that we maintain that distance.

            Comment

            • Joneslab
              Senior Member
              • Oct 2014
              • 39604

              #141
              Originally posted by Spiritof96

              I didn't read those posts that way.
              Well, I did. As did a couple of others apparently.

              At the very least there seems kind of a shruggy, “Eh, what are you gonna do?” sort of tone.

              The riot and how people—white UK fans in this instance—think about it is the very reason we’re even having this conversation in the first place.

              Comment

              • Westtncat
                Senior Member
                • Oct 2014
                • 2031

                #142
                Originally posted by Downes Van Zandt

                LeBron James’ wealth isn’t a systemic problem, though. Racism is.

                When trying to understand the thing that many Black folks are protesting against, consider something Du Bois said (and I’m paraphrasing here): Black people had to wait about two hundred years before they were able to even begin to accumulate their own wealth, education, social standing — you name it. They’ve been socially handicapped since the day they were freed from bondage, and many feel (rightly so, in numerous ways) that A. not enough has been done to close that gap, and B. there are still a lot of people who would prefer that we maintain that distance.
                Racism is a choice people make. You or I cannot change anything about anything that is systematic. You can give your wealth to them if you want but that's about it. To say people want maintain that gap is reach. I think most people are just busy trying to keep their own life from falling apart. Its easy to say something exist but let me ask you this. What have you done to promote white privilege? What are doing to nullify white privilege? Not saying you but many people stand on a soap box and scream white privilege because it makes them feel good. In truth many people who scream white privilege and those that so called want it to continue are probably living similar lives.

                Comment

                • George
                  Senior Member
                  • Oct 2014
                  • 10355

                  #143
                  Originally posted by Westtncat

                  Racism is a choice people make. You or I cannot change anything about anything that is systematic. You can give your wealth to them if you want but that's about it. To say people want maintain that gap is reach. I think most people are just busy trying to keep their own life from falling apart. Its easy to say something exist but let me ask you this. What have you done to promote white privilege? What are doing to nullify white privilege? Not saying you but many people stand on a soap box and scream white privilege because it makes them feel good. In truth many people who scream white privilege and those that so called want it to continue are probably living similar lives.
                  I disagree with this. I guess it's true if people accept your stance, but this is exactly why other people protest, and vote, and donate, and write, and on and on.

                  I'm not screaming about "white privilege." I think we can accept the fact (and it is a fact) that slavery severely handicapped Black people's social progress without buying every feature of the white privilege theory. But to your point, I've probably done plenty to promote it without even realizing it, and not enough to change it when I should've. It's something I think about a lot, actually. The belief that people only protest to make themselves feel good (virtue signaling, as Jload would put it) also needs to be checked. It's cynical, and it undermines good work that a lot of people do for genuine reasons.

                  But this idea that people don't want to maintain the gap is simply (and sadly) false. Exhibit A, from last week's "patriot" demonstration:

                  Click image for larger version  Name:	NYer.png Views:	0 Size:	104.5 KB ID:	253457
                  Last edited by George; 01-15-2021, 11:42 AM.

                  Comment

                  • Joneslab
                    Senior Member
                    • Oct 2014
                    • 39604

                    #144
                    Originally posted by Westtncat

                    Racism is a choice people make. You or I cannot change anything about anything that is systematic. You can give your wealth to them if you want but that's about it. To say people want maintain that gap is reach. I think most people are just busy trying to keep their own life from falling apart. Its easy to say something exist but let me ask you this. What have you done to promote white privilege? What are doing to nullify white privilege? Not saying you but many people stand on a soap box and scream white privilege because it makes them feel good. In truth many people who scream white privilege and those that so called want it to continue are probably living similar lives.
                    Oh man, this is way wrong. You’ve never met someone who was racist and changed their views? I can’t believe that.

                    It surely doesn’t happen a lot but it absolutely does happen. Had some relatives who went from being pretty bad to ready to fight fools over racist remarks in just a few years. The reason was I suddenly had black cousins after my aunt married a black man.

                    Comment

                    • Westtncat
                      Senior Member
                      • Oct 2014
                      • 2031

                      #145
                      So where did that come from? If you didn't see it yourself I wouldn't put too much on it. Even if it's true they have as much effect on issues as taking a knee. Employers need to hire blacks if they are qualified. Banks can give loans. Things that actually make difference. This country has made more effort than any country on earth to remedy the wrongs it has made. It's not perfect but it has been a gargantuan effort. If you are making a difference in someone's life that's great.

                      Comment

                      • Westtncat
                        Senior Member
                        • Oct 2014
                        • 2031

                        #146
                        Originally posted by Will Lavender

                        Oh man, this is way wrong. You’ve never met someone who was racist and changed their views? I can’t believe that.

                        It surely doesn’t happen a lot but it absolutely does happen. Had some relatives who went from being pretty bad to ready to fight fools over racist remarks in just a few years. The reason was I suddenly had black cousins after my aunt married a black man.
                        Never said that.

                        Comment

                        • George
                          Senior Member
                          • Oct 2014
                          • 10355

                          #147
                          Originally posted by Westtncat
                          So where did that come from? If you didn't see it yourself I wouldn't put too much on it.
                          If you have to see everything with your own eyes before you're willing to believe it, then what do you believe?

                          Like it or not, objective truth still exists, and there are still a heck of a lot of people whose lives are dedicated to presenting those objective truths as accurately as possible.

                          Comment

                          • samsdad
                            Senior Member
                            • Oct 2014
                            • 258

                            #148
                            I'm not screaming about "white privilege." I think we can accept the fact (and it is a fact) that slavery severely handicapped Black people's social progress without buying every feature of the white privilege theory. But to your point, I've probably done plenty to promote it without even realizing it, and not enough to change it when I should've. It's something I think about a lot, actually. The belief that people only protest to make themselves feel good (virtue signaling, as Jload would put it) also needs to be checked. It's cynical, and it undermines good work that a lot of people do for genuine reasons.

                            What kind of privilege is that Black is capitalized?

                            Comment

                            • George
                              Senior Member
                              • Oct 2014
                              • 10355

                              #149
                              Originally posted by samsdad
                              What kind of privilege is that Black is capitalized?
                              That was my own decision based on grammar rules with which you may or may not agree or acknowledge.

                              Regardless, that’s what you took from that post?

                              Comment

                              • samsdad
                                Senior Member
                                • Oct 2014
                                • 258

                                #150
                                Originally posted by Downes Van Zandt

                                That was my own decision based on grammar rules with which you may or may not agree or acknowledge.

                                Regardless, that’s what you took from that post?
                                What I take is that Black is somehow superior to white. Am I wrong?

                                Comment

                                 

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