The Annual Staying vs Leaving Thread

[Joneslab]

Couple things:

Where are you guys pulling that players don't improve after 20 years old at? That has the be the most stupid comment ever... Almost every player improves past 20... Same to be said that most every college player is better at the end of their career than when they came in.

That was my comment.

I stand by that. I think the best development for a player once he hits 20 is in the NBA. There are exceptions to the rule; there are guys who get a lot stronger and who are able to operate through brute will and force. Jorts comes to mind. Liggins as well. Darius improved dramatically but he always had the skillset; once he got over the mental hurdles he became a very solid player.

But skill-wise college development is way behind, mostly because of the restrictions the NCAA puts on practice time. Unless they're projects or big men who haven't played a whole lot, most often you see guys kind of flatline in the second halves of their careers.

However, when Skal started playing better, Cal never went to that. It was more about 3 guys standing around - Murray or Ulis dribbling way too much and the other one trying to run off a screen.

I kind of agree about Skal's hook. Think we should've gone in there a little more to him.

But Skal was always hamstrung by his rebounding. It was hard to play him for long stretches because he just had the ball ripped out of his hands at a shocking clip. It's hard to throw the guy the ball when he isn't in the game.

[catfaninin]

no one is going 40-0 --- please stop saying that.

When did it become an absolute fact that this will never happen? We almost saw it last year so it is possible. As long as its possible then we can never know if it will ever happen. Unlikely yes but not impossible. It was unlikely that NC St beats Houston, Villanova beats Georgetown, Chaminde beats Virginia etc , etc...... but someone forgot to tell those teams it was impossible and it did happen.

[lilproUK98]

That was my comment.

I stand by that. I think the best development for a player once he hits 20 is in the NBA. There are exceptions to the rule; there are guys who get a lot stronger and who are able to operate through brute will and force. Jorts comes to mind. Liggins as well. Darius improved dramatically but he always had the skillset; once he got over the mental hurdles he became a very solid player.

But skill-wise college development is way behind, mostly because of the restrictions the NCAA puts on practice time. Unless they're projects or big men who haven't played a whole lot, most often you see guys kind of flatline in the second halves of their careers.



I kind of agree about Skal's hook. Think we should've gone in there a little more to him.

But Skal was always hamstrung by his rebounding. It was hard to play him for long stretches because he just had the ball ripped out of his hands at a shocking clip. It's hard to throw the guy the ball when he isn't in the game.

I HIGHLY recommend all involved in this thread listen to Matt Jones's latest podcast with Tom Leach and Chad Ford (NBA Draft expert). Mountains of great info, insight, and analysis of these very subjects. (What NBA teams are looking for, player development in the NBA and in college, analysis on current and past UK players and others, etc.

Tom also gives a lot of his opinions on last year's team and insight into basically his whole career, with some good Gillispie comments and stories.

It is seriously one of the best things I've ever listened to. Just go to his Twitter account and click on the link in the tweet. I can post the link here later.

[lilproUK98]

http://kentuckysportsradio.com/basketball-2/the-matt-jones-podcast-e27-tom-leach-and-chad-ford/?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

Here's the link

[Pobilly]

I still have no new news from the person I trust that told me a few weeks back that SKAL was staying as well as Briscoe staying. Not sure if no news is good or bad news. I know things change from time to time but have been waiting for his update. Source will not update anything until he gets new confirmed information and he never reveals where he gets his info. My brother has a few people he knows close to the program and told me last night it is still up in the air.

[GOCAT15]

There can't seriously be even any conversation about Briscoe can there, unless he thinks he can get an invite to a combine and impress people. I have not seen anywhere that he is even a fringe second rounder? Skal is still a fringe lottery pick and most think he will do good in the combines which may solidify that, I just can't see him coming back.

[Lighthouse]

I fuss as much as anybody about Cal's offense, or lack of an offensive scheme other than the pick and roll that not only we use, but a lot of teams nowadays. I think the main reason is time.

For example, here in Louisville the competitive HS's know for the most part, which of the 8th graders will play at their school next year. They all have quality coaches teaching their system as soon as these players become freshmen at their school, and unless an exceptional athlete shows up later as say a junior, nobody plays for them except those who are learning the system. Only a very exceptional player ever plays on the varsity until they learn, and they have them everyday for 4 years.

Cal doesn't have that time. He has to install defense and offense in a short period, and that's after everyone of his kids have learned totally different schemes where they come from. And, he has to take all the attitudes of superstar HS players, and mold them into a college them where they may not be the star. I think he's done a fairly good job of getting his kids to not only play together, but for each other.

[Joneslab]

This past team was one of the best I've ever seen at Kentucky offensively. If Cal didn't have enough time with this bunch then I'd hate to see them if they actually had any schemes.

I think more than time Cal cherishes defense over offense. He recruits length, he seems to believe in the defense-first philosophy, he loves shot-blockers--it serves to reason that the offense wouldn't generally be a juggernaut.

But in terms of sets, Kentucky runs the same stuff everybody else does. We run the horns set. We run motion. We run a variety of different reads. In college basketball nowadays there's a lot of sameness; the trick is having good players who can put the ball in the hoop.

[BBNalldayeveryday]

I think Skal's decision ulitmately will depend on what kind of feedback he gets back from Cal.

[Matt Dillon]

I think Skal's decision ulitmately will depend on what kind of feedback he gets back from Cal.

I'm not sure. His guardian may have as much, if not more, influence with him than Cal.

[Joneslab]

He might be in a Terrence Jones situation. Jones wanted the lottery so he came back...but Jones also came from a solidly middle-class household.

Obviously that's not the case for Skal.

I tend to think the only way he comes back is if he or his camp are just afraid of being so shown up and so blown back by the strength and speed of these pro athletes--even in the D-League--that they worry that Skal will get a reputation he won't be able to shake.

[Matt Dillon]

I still think he takes the money and runs.

[Lighthouse]

This past team was one of the best I've ever seen at Kentucky offensively. If Cal didn't have enough time with this bunch then I'd hate to see them if they actually had any schemes.

I think more than time Cal cherishes defense over offense. He recruits length, he seems to believe in the defense-first philosophy, he loves shot-blockers--it serves to reason that the offense wouldn't generally be a juggernaut.

But in terms of sets, Kentucky runs the same stuff everybody else does. We run the horns set. We run motion. We run a variety of different reads. In college basketball nowadays there's a lot of sameness; the trick is having good players who can put the ball in the hoop.

I see the Will, so I assume you realize I was only pointing out why me and so many others fuss because it seems we run no similarity of an offense. Unlike HS's and other College teams, Cal simply doesn't have time to install a very complicated offense. For example, to get Murray open, we often ran him side to side with the option to quickly move back, according to what the defense was doing. It takes years for a team to learn complicated sets. They work, but with Cal, it is simplicity only.

[Ratt]

That was my comment.

I stand by that. I think the best development for a player once he hits 20 is in the NBA. There are exceptions to the rule; there are guys who get a lot stronger and who are able to operate through brute will and force. Jorts comes to mind. Liggins as well. Darius improved dramatically but he always had the skillset; once he got over the mental hurdles he became a very solid player.

But skill-wise college development is way behind, mostly because of the restrictions the NCAA puts on practice time. Unless they're projects or big men who haven't played a whole lot, most often you see guys kind of flatline in the second halves of their careers.



I kind of agree about Skal's hook. Think we should've gone in there a little more to him.

But Skal was always hamstrung by his rebounding. It was hard to play him for long stretches because he just had the ball ripped out of his hands at a shocking clip. It's hard to throw the guy the ball when he isn't in the game.

I see what you were saying now... I was reading into what you said incorrectly because kids absolutely improve with age at the next level. Overall though, there aren't too many kids that stay in college that are over 20 anyway - not if they have a lot of talent. And you are spot on about Skal. His defense and rebounding and lack of overall awareness and of course his 'rock' hands was/is an issue.

[Ratt]

When did it become an absolute fact that this will never happen? We almost saw it last year so it is possible. As long as its possible then we can never know if it will ever happen. Unlikely yes but not impossible. It was unlikely that NC St beats Houston, Villanova beats Georgetown, Chaminde beats Virginia etc , etc...... but someone forgot to tell those teams it was impossible and it did happen.

Not trying to be rude to anyone here but I'm so tired of listening to UK fans spout 40-0... Then they come on here and other places and wonder why so many non-UK fans hate us. Is it possible that sometime, someday, someone will go 40-0. It's a possibility but the likelihood of that happening is very slim. And it just seems that UK fans are the only ones chanting that. I just don't like it. I think it makes BBN look stupid. Let the kids play and then if it happens, then shout it all you want.