The Annual Staying vs Leaving Thread

[Matt Dillon]

They are here for Cal and the spotlight and no matter how much that may upset the traditionalists, it is what it is.

Actually, they're probably here because they have to be, more so than anything else.

[UKtimefor9]

When the &#%! is Coach K going to retire?

It's frustrating, isn't it? Outside of 2012 UK has seemed to have the "great" team in the wrong year. Next year will likely be the same as everything I read says that Duke, KU, and Mich St will be loaded. Along with UCLA and UL being really, really good.

Next year's UK team this year would have been the clear #1; next year they may be #4 or 5

[KevinHall]

That team was on a longer timeline for a few reasons.

They did end up playing for a national title, so if you could guarantee me that next year we'll be playing for a title I'd take those 11 losses. That just means that it took your head coach longer to figure out what buttons to push with the team.

The best Tubby Smith team I ever saw lost an exhibition game. Kansas got throttled this year with a team of seniors by a terrible Oklahoma State team. So even if you have those upperclassmen you're prone to take some weird losses. This is a strange, infuriating sport. It isn't like college football where you can play it like Alabama, stack five-stars at every position, and go out and blow the doors off everybody.

Next year's team is still a different deal and will be on the level of '09-'10 IMO. No Harrison twins who are going to take months to adjust to the college game. Just a much stronger class overall. I think it may be the strongest class ever since the rankings have been in place.

The downside is that Duke got a similar kind of haul as we did and will have a better nucleus returning.

I know, no two teams are exactly alike. But I just look at most of these freshman classes very skeptically until I see them play a few games.

[George]

It's frustrating, isn't it? Outside of 2012 UK has seemed to have the "great" team in the wrong year. Next year will likely be the same as everything I read says that Duke, KU, and Mich St will be loaded. Along with UCLA and UL being really, really good.

Next year's UK team this year would have been the clear #1; next year they may be #4 or 5

Exactly. As good as we'll be, dook will probably be better. That's what makes last year's loss so painful; it's so, so rare to put it all together like that.

[Joneslab]

I know, no two teams are exactly alike. But I just look at most of these freshman classes very skeptically until I see them play a few games.

With Cal--and Coach K--I think we're past the age of skepticism.

There've been a couple of Archie Goodwins and Daniel Ortons. (Actually, Daniel Orton was a serviceable back-up.) But for the most part Cal has been great with freshmen. He knows how to scout them; 90% of the time he knows how to push them when they get here.

It isn't like we've got Johnny Jones at the helm. The only thing you can fault Cal for is not getting that team two years ago to play until March. Otherwise it's been one success story after another.

I think this is why he doesn't mind roster turnover. I think if you got Cal to sit down and really tell the truth, what he'd say is that it's better to have young players because once they hit 20 years old or so, they don't improve a lot of the time.

[Pobilly]

There will be some good (possible great teams) next year. It will all depend on who leaves or comes back for a ton of teams including UK. It will be fun to see how the tree shakes out.

[justford]

Exactly. As good as we'll be, dook will probably be better. That's what makes last year's loss so painful; it's so, so rare to put it all together like that.

I am going to wait and see who returns for Duke. I would be surprised if many leave but you never know.

[Joneslab]

Exactly. As good as we'll be, dook will probably be better.

We'll have to see the teams first.

Kentucky definitely will have more. Maybe a lot more depending on Bolden. And I think the UK staff thinks Malik Monk is a guy you could put out there against anybody next season. Elite, John Wall sort of talent.

But Duke got a sort of perverse break with Amile Jefferson going down. Grayson Allen not being a prototypical NBA player also helps. And of course they got a gift in the NCAA Tournament so they still have an outside chance at a run this season.

Cal hasn't gotten an early-round upset to pave the way for him since he's been at UK. It's one of the more perplexing things about Kentucky in the Cal era: the fact that we've had to run a gauntlet literally every year in the tournament.

[lilproUK98]

It's frustrating, isn't it? Outside of 2012 UK has seemed to have the "great" team in the wrong year. Next year will likely be the same as everything I read says that Duke, KU, and Mich St will be loaded. Along with UCLA and UL being really, really good.

Next year's UK team this year would have been the clear #1; next year they may be #4 or 5

Some people seem to forget it, but we got some luck in 2012 with UNC's PG getting hurt. With him UNC was pretty much our equal.

[lilproUK98]

Guys, honestly, with Bolden,and Briscoe back UK is the team to beat next year. Just go watch these incoming guys on video....

Fox
Monk
Briscoe
Bam
Bolden
Gabriel
Killeya-Jones
Willis
Hawkins
Lee
Humpries
Matthews
Wynyard

That team right there is as stacked top to bottom with more talent, athleticism, size, and skill than any we've had under Cal. Even has some experience to boot....

[Blue Heaven]

As far as the "staying" goes, I am wanting to see some actual player development. The knock on Cal has been his inability to develop guys, and it is warranted. Next season, I want to see Lee do more than run the floor for oops. I want to see Willis do more than spot up for threes. I want to see Briscoe get a jump shot. I don't think that is a lot to ask. Being a Kentucky fan these days, rarely do we get to see guys stay and improve their game. All I know is, Lee has not gotten better and Alex did' over four years. The Harrison's were the exact same in year two. This is not a Cal bashing post from me, rather it is a question that I feel all Cat fans should have in the backs of their minds.

[George]

Guys, honestly, with Bolden,and Briscoe back UK is the team to beat next year. Just go watch these incoming guys on video....

Fox
Monk
Briscoe
Bam
Bolden
Gabriel
Killeya-Jones
Willis
Hawkins
Lee
Humpries
Matthews
Wynyard

That team right there is as stacked top to bottom with more talent, athleticism, size, and skill than any we've had under Cal. Even has some experience to boot....

I put little stock in mix tapes. All those (incoming) guys have impressive tapes, and no, their athleticism cannot be denied. Still doesn't guarantee that they'll put it all together when it's time to play for real.

Now, for the record, I don't doubt this incoming group one bit. I do think this one in particular will be one of the most impressive and capable classes ever. But, it's still a bunch of freshman running the show, and even having once won it all with that kind of group, you can never guarantee anything with a team full of kids. We need returnees. Period.

[UKtimefor9]

If Briscoe or Skal went somewhere other than UK - Ohio St, NC St, Wisconsin, Iowa, etc... the thought of them even considering entering the draft would be laughable and astonishing. I guess that's the good (and bad) of Cal and UK.

[Lighthouse]

I put little stock in mix tapes. All those (incoming) guys have impressive tapes, and no, their athleticism cannot be denied. Still doesn't guarantee that they'll put it all together when it's time to play for real.

Now, for the record, I don't doubt this incoming group one bit. I do think this one in particular will be one of the most impressive and capable classes ever. But, it's still a bunch of freshman running the show, and even having once won it all with that kind of group, you can never guarantee anything with a team full of kids. We need returnees. Period.

Same here. If freshmen don't gel as a team, it won't matter much how talented they are. Cal does a good job in this area of getting kids to play together and for each other. I hope he can do it again, but I'll withhold expecting another NC until around mid January 2017.

[BobS]

As far as the "staying" goes, I am wanting to see some actual player development. The knock on Cal has been his inability to develop guys, and it is warranted. Next season, I want to see Lee do more than run the floor for oops. I want to see Willis do more than spot up for threes. I want to see Briscoe get a jump shot. I don't think that is a lot to ask. Being a Kentucky fan these days, rarely do we get to see guys stay and improve their game. All I know is, Lee has not gotten better and Alex did' over four years. The Harrison's were the exact same in year two. This is not a Cal bashing post from me, rather it is a question that I feel all Cat fans should have in the backs of their minds.

This has to be the most off based observation ever, IMO. Who hasn't developed under Cal? Marcus Lee? wohoo. You say the Harrisons, but Andrew definitely improved his second year.

He has most of his players for 6 months. Some for 2 seasons but not many. So just how much development are you expecting in 2 years? The same as let's say, Darnell Valentime over 4? Really?

People forget what he did with Harrellson. How did KAT look when he left compared to when he arrived? Better? You bet. Good enough to be #1, but he sure did not look that way early in the season. You don't think WCS developed at all in his time here? You think Patterson did not get that big contract because Cal worked with him to expand his game to the outside more?

Don't mean to sound angry and Cal certainly has his faults, but player development is simply a straw man argument. Give Cal 3-4 years with these guys like most coaches get and then we will talk.