Poll: Cal in the Rafters

[EKYCat]

I do agree that any successful coach will have a list of what ifs. Of course, we focus on Cal’s more than others.

curious, what tier/group of coaches would you put Cal with?

Obviously, he isn't there with Rupp, Wooden, K, or Knight, Rick, or even Roy. Had he been able to coach to the level of his talent (he certainly did less with more) he would be in that top tier. My comps to Cal would be probably Izzo, Self (although Self has one more title), Crum, Hall. On that second tier if you ask me.

[KentuckyFlyer]

Obviously, he isn't there with Rupp, Wooden, K, or Knight, Rick, or even Roy. Had he been able to coach to the level of his talent (he certainly did less with more) he would be in that top tier. My comps to Cal would be probably Izzo, Self (although Self has one more title), Crum, Hall. On that second tier if you ask me.

I agree, as I think we all can, that Cal is obviously not in that top tier. My argument, though, is that he isn't really in the second tier either. Izzo, Self, Crum, and Hall all did what was expected without the total catastrophes that Cal had. They had great recruiting classes, but they didn't dominate recruiting like Cal did. Cal gets kudos for that, but he failed miserably in so many ways with his great recruiting. I honestly believe another 3 minutes and he would have lost the one Natty he managed to win. Would you say Billy Donovan is in the same tier as Cal? BD has back-to-back with way less talent than Cal had almost every year, yet you haven't mentioned him as top one or two tier. BD was also better in the NBA. Dean Smith won two as well as several others, and I don't see them in your second tier, only Crum? Most of the following, I'm assuming you would not put in your second tier? Yet you would have Cal there??

• Branch McCracken: Won titles in 1940 and 1953 with Indiana.
• Ed Jucker: Won titles in 1961 and 1962 with Cincinnati.
• Henry Iba: Won titles in 1945 and 1946 with Oklahoma State.
• Dean Smith: Won titles in 1982 and 1993 with North Carolina.
• Denny Crum: Won titles in 1980 and 1986 with Louisville.
• Billy Donovan: Won titles in 2006 and 2007 with Florida.
• Phil Woolpert: Won titles in 1955 and 1956 with San Francisco.

Cals on par with Hall, John Thompson, Jim Harrick, and Jim Boeheim as a third-tier coach, and probably at the bottom of that list as he screwed the pooch wayyyy more than they did.
No banner for Cal? Now, please don't make me start a petition...

[wildcatdon]

He is at best a third tier coach, probably 4th tier. Horrible in game coach, strategist and basic game manager. I have no use for him. I wish he had never come here.

[KentuckyFlyer]

He is at best a third tier coach, probably 4th tier. Horrible in game coach, strategist and basic game manager. I have no use for him. I wish he had never come here.

Will you sign my petition? lol

[Joneslab]

Cals on par with Hall, John Thompson, Jim Harrick

Probably Hall and Thompson.

Jim Harrick? That's a little sketchier.

Harrick had four trips out of the second round in 23 seasons of coaching.

Also think he was handed a much different situation at UCLA than Cal was at UMASS or Memphis...or, honestly, even Kentucky.

I wouldn't rank them on the same tier.

John Thompson is interesting. I think that's a pretty good call with him and Cal. Thompson had a pretty ferocious run there in the early '80s, and had a late-career collapse a little like Cal did here. I agree that you'd probably put them really close when ranking the all-timers.

[George]

He is at best a third tier coach, probably 4th tier. Horrible in game coach, strategist and basic game manager. I have no use for him. I wish he had never come here.

Yeah, all those wins, tourney runs, Final Fours, and championship appearances really piss me off, too.

[KentuckyFlyer]

Probably Hall and Thompson.

Jim Harrick? That's a little sketchier.

Harrick had four trips out of the second round in 23 seasons of coaching.

Also think he was handed a much different situation at UCLA than Cal was at UMASS or Memphis...or, honestly, even Kentucky.

I wouldn't rank them on the same tier.

John Thompson is interesting. I think that's a pretty good call with him and Cal. Thompson had a pretty ferocious run there in the early '80s, and had a late-career collapse a little like Cal did here. I agree that you'd probably put them really close when ranking the all-timers.

Yeah, I have no problem with your Harrick objection. I had second thoughts about adding him to my post.. Just Cal's frustration that I did. Thompson did blow one in Rupp against Nova, an eight seed. So yeah, that's Cal-ish like. I liked Big John, He kinda reminds me of Huggy Bear. They both seemed to have a soft heart. I still remember Big John consoling Fred Brown when he threw a Natty away to James Worthy in the 82 title game. him and Huggins were classy acts.

[Catsrock]

Had Cal won the titles with those three teams, he would have to be considered the greatest to ever coach the game of college basketball. That would be four championships in an era where it's hard as hell to do it...I think that's more impressive than Wooden and Coach K.

You can spin that two ways. One, what a missed opportunity, and those missed opportunities make him infinitely flawed as a coach. Or you can say that being on the cusp of that was at least borderline historic, showing that he was in the mix almost every season in his first 7 or 8 here.

I come down sort of in the middle...but not because of the missed titles necessarily. For me what happened since 2021 vastly outweighs the missed titles. It's those last few years that knock him down several notches on the all-time greats list, beneath guys like Roy Williams and probably even Bill Self.

Ol’ Roy—if the NCAA were a governing body and took away 18 years of wins and a couple titles would anyone have him on their list of greats? I’m not impressed with anyone who got to play with an entirely different set of rules. Duke and UNC being able to tell recruits they’ll be very well compensated with no chance of retribution—unlike everywhere else—was a massive advantage. Those 2 programs should only compare themselves to one another.

[KCKUKFan]

Cal is second tier.

Three different schools to the final four.

The wins.

The multiple final fours at the greatest school in college basketball.

He transformed recruiting.

A title.

Plenty of all time greats stuck around a few years too long.

[KentuckyFlyer]

Cal is second tier.

Three different schools to the final four.

The wins.

The multiple final fours at the greatest school in college basketball.

He transformed recruiting.

A title.

Plenty of all time greats stuck around a few years too long.

Lets comprise. There was only one team that scared the manure out of me in '96, and that was Cal's UMASS team.

Cal was second tier at Umass

Third tier at Memphis

Second tier at UK until 2015.. Cal didn't really cost us that game as much as the no-call on the shot clock

Third tier at UK from 16 to 23

And, I'll agree to a banner if we hang it backwards or upside down, your choice.

[KCKUKFan]

Lets comprise. There was only one team that scared the manure out of me in '96, and that was Cal's UMASS team.

Cal was second tier at Umass

Third tier at Memphis

Second tier at UK until 2015.. Cal didn't really cost us that game as much as the no-call on the shot clock

Third tier at UK from 16 to 23

And, I'll agree to a banner if we hang it backwards or upside down, your choice.

20-23.

We were a bounce away from a final four in 17 and 19 with extremely good, entertaining teams.

[EKYCat]

I agree, as I think we all can, that Cal is obviously not in that top tier. My argument, though, is that he isn't really in the second tier either. Izzo, Self, Crum, and Hall all did what was expected without the total catastrophes that Cal had. They had great recruiting classes, but they didn't dominate recruiting like Cal did. Cal gets kudos for that, but he failed miserably in so many ways with his great recruiting. I honestly believe another 3 minutes and he would have lost the one Natty he managed to win. Would you say Billy Donovan is in the same tier as Cal? BD has back-to-back with way less talent than Cal had almost every year, yet you haven't mentioned him as top one or two tier. BD was also better in the NBA. Dean Smith won two as well as several others, and I don't see them in your second tier, only Crum? Most of the following, I'm assuming you would not put in your second tier? Yet you would have Cal there??

• Branch McCracken: Won titles in 1940 and 1953 with Indiana.
• Ed Jucker: Won titles in 1961 and 1962 with Cincinnati.
• Henry Iba: Won titles in 1945 and 1946 with Oklahoma State.
• Dean Smith: Won titles in 1982 and 1993 with North Carolina.
• Denny Crum: Won titles in 1980 and 1986 with Louisville.
• Billy Donovan: Won titles in 2006 and 2007 with Florida.
• Phil Woolpert: Won titles in 1955 and 1956 with San Francisco.

Cals on par with Hall, John Thompson, Jim Harrick, and Jim Boeheim as a third-tier coach, and probably at the bottom of that list as he screwed the pooch wayyyy more than they did.
No banner for Cal? Now, please don't make me start a petition...

I was asked for a list of who I would consider Cal to be on par with. I obviously didn’t provide an exhaustive list as you’ve done here. Heck, I was at work when I posted. If you can’t see that Cal has been an extremely successful coach who stayed past his prime I don’t know what to tell you. But, next time I’ll scour the record books for coaches from the 40s and 50s. I’m glad Cal is gone. But to not recognize his successes is crazy to me. He was great and he also sucked. You win a title and go to several final fours, you deserve a spot in the rafters.

[KentuckyFlyer]

20-23.

We were a bounce away from a final four in 17 and 19 with extremely good, entertaining teams.

20-23 just can't do it my friend. I'd feel like a 12-dollar whore in the morning.

[EKYCat]

20-23 just can't do it my friend. I'd feel like a 12-dollar whore in the morning.

Went 32-6 in 2016-17 and 30-7 in 2018-19. They were 25-6 in 2019-2020 before Covid.

[KentuckyFlyer]

I was asked for a list of who I would consider Cal to be on par with. I obviously didn’t provide an exhaustive list as you’ve done here. Heck, I was at work when I posted. If you can’t see that Cal has been an extremely successful coach who stayed past his prime I don’t know what to tell you. But, next time I’ll scour the record books for coaches from the 40s and 50s. I’m glad Cal is gone. But to not recognize his successes is crazy to me. He was great and he also sucked. You win a title and go to several final fours, you deserve a spot in the rafters.

Well.. the 40's and 50's account for half of our titles. Rupps top tier and all his titles were in the 40's and 50's. Wooden's top tier and his are all in the 60's and 70's. Without our history, we're basically Villanova or Florida and looking up at Uconn. Ima hang on to the 40's and 50's.