Poll: Cal in the Rafters

[EKYCat]

Well.. the 40's and 50's account for half of our titles. Rupps top tier and all his titles were in the 40's and 50's. Wooden's top tier and his are all in the 60's and 70's. Without our history, we're basically Villanova or Florida and looking up at Uconn. Ima hang on to the 40's and 50's.

Obviously. You asked where I consider him in the pantheon of coaches. For the way he changed recruiting, for the number of total wins, total final fours, and a national title I said second tier.

[KentuckyFlyer]

Went 32-6 in 2016-17 and 30-7 in 2018-19. They were 25-6 in 2019-2020 before Covid.

That's great, but those teams were all number-one recruited teams. Love the records, but they should have gotten to the FF minimum and at least one title. No doubt they were good, but they underachieved, and that's on Cal. I will agree that for most teams, that's top tier, but not for UK and not for those rosters. I'd probably feel different had he snagged at least one more title around that time, but he didn't. I was tired of Cal by 16 and wished he would have taken an NBA job, never said much because I knew he was still liked by most of the faithful and didn't want to get hung.

[EKYCat]

That's great, but those teams were all number-one recruited teams. Love the records, but they should have gotten to the FF minimum and at least one title. No doubt they were good, but they underachieved, and that's on Cal. I will agree that for most teams, that's top tier, but not for UK and not for those rosters. I'd probably feel different had he snagged at least one more title around that time, but he didn't. I was tired of Cal by 16 and wished he would have taken an NBA job, never said much because I knew he was still liked by most of the faithful and didn't want to get hung.

So is the measure of success at UK final four/National title or bust? Those teams got to an Elite 8 and were seriously one or two breaks away from being right there.

For the record, I was ready to move on from Cal after the Auburn loss in the Elite 8. Was tired of the constant revolving door, the cliches, and all that went with it. But, he still deserves a rafter spot.

[KentuckyFlyer]

So is the measure of success at UK final four/National title or bust? Those teams got to an Elite 8 and were seriously one or two breaks away from being right there.

For the record, I was ready to move on from Cal after the Auburn loss in the Elite 8. Was tired of the constant revolving door, the cliches, and all that went with it. But, he still deserves a rafter spot.

I know it sounds arrogant and maybe crazy, but yeah, for a while, that was the standard at UK. Didn't you think that in the 90's and then in the 20 teens? Hell, that's why other fan bases hated us.. I was proud of it too.

[40bill]

If we are going to ignore Cals accomplishment due to his failings, then we have to pull everyone out. Rupp has been criticized as racist, Hall was a turn coat that took Rupps job, Pitino was a womanizer, ten loss Tubby....

Look...you win a title, you deserve a slot in the rafters.

[George]

I know it sounds arrogant and maybe crazy, but yeah, for a while, that was the standard at UK. Didn't you think that in the 90's and then in the 20 teens? Hell, that's why other fan bases hated us.. I was proud of it too.

If you feel that way, then why wouldn’t Cal qualify? His lows don’t erase his (extremely high) highs, and he obviously didn’t do any lasting damage to the program, else it’d be in much worse shape than it is right now.

He met or exceeded every objective requirement to earn a place in the rafters. I’m really not even sure why this is an argument.

[SportsFan]

If you feel that way, then why wouldn’t Cal qualify? His lows don’t erase his (extremely high) highs, and he obviously didn’t do any lasting damage to the program, else it’d be in much worse shape than it is right now.

He got lucky. Very lucky. Had his run from 2019 - 2024 started immediately following his 2015 FF loss to Wisconsin, and he left before NIL and the transfer portal was established where a roster could be rebuilt in the span of a couple of months, this wouldn't have been the case. His decline coincided with the creation of NIL and the transfer portal being put into place, so the stars aligned perfectly for him.

[George]

He got lucky. Very lucky. Had his run from 2019 - 2024 started immediately following his 2015 FF loss to Wisconsin, and he left before NIL and the transfer portal was established where a roster could be rebuilt in the span of a couple of months, this wouldn't have been the case. His decline coincided with the creation of NIL and the transfer portal being put into place, so the stars aligned perfectly for him.

I know you’re not a Cal fan, but you cannot wave off eight, nine years of elite performances - plus his achievements at Memphis and UMASS - as luck.

Come on.

[Joneslab]

He got lucky. Very lucky. Had his run from 2019 - 2024 started immediately following his 2015 FF loss to Wisconsin, and he left before NIL and the transfer portal was established where a roster could be rebuilt in the span of a couple of months, this wouldn't have been the case. His decline coincided with the creation of NIL and the transfer portal being put into place, so the stars aligned perfectly for him.

Yeah, I agree with that last point about him not being able to adjust to NIL and particularly the transfer portal. By that point he was much more in the game of helping young players out of generational poverty. Helping older players--players who are being paid as college athletes--was a tough adjustment and he got behind the 8-ball.

I don't think he got lucky early, though. His ability to keep those stars in line has to be commended. And his years at UMASS show that the guy knew how to coach.

I think as the years went along the "coaching" part of it for him just became less and less important, and then he started missing on some really important players. That was the killing stroke. But the guy had *way* more success across his career than just "he got lucky" answers for.

I even thought the game he coached against Pope this past year was really clever, and you could see some actual X's and O's in the way they grinded us down. Same with the game against Pitino. He just doesn't lean on those parts of his coaching a lot because he's almost always in "let the players do it" mode--which is one of his strengths and, as we saw against St. Peter's and Oakland, a big part of his downfall here.

[KentuckyFlyer]

I don't think he got lucky either. He was a good Coach in his UMass days, and he was always a good recruiter. It's just this simple to me, his bad outweighs his good to the point that he's at best, and on a generous day, maybe a lower-level, second tier coach.

I don't blame NIL or the portal for his downfall. I think he was in free fall before these things came about.