Poll: Cal in the Rafters

[blueheretic]

Cal belongs in the rafters period. His credentials are better than Joe B and Tubby, and they're both up there.

I know a lot of my former Rafters cohorts hate the guy, but the numbers are the numbers and he has the same amount of titles as Joe B, Pitino and Tubby, and has more Final Fours at UK (4) than Joe B (3), Rick (3) or Tubby (1).

I know his name won't be hung in our rafters while he's the head coach of another SEC school. My guess is there will be a jersey ceremony within 2-5 years of Cal retiring from coaching. Tubby was gone for almost 15 years before they did his.

Cal (1) did have more losing seasons than Hall (0), Pitino (0) and Smith (0).


Hall and Pitino did have 1 each .500 season.

Neither of them had a 9-16 season.

None of them ever had as much talent either.

Cal should have won 5 titles with all of the talent. Instead, he started his faves and played his faves more minutes and invented the vaunted and much afear'd Prevent Offense.

[wildcatdon]

It will not bother me if that non coach never gets his banner hung in Rupp. The aura of UK basketball is more than wins and losses and ncaa titles and Cal never had that nor did he care. SEC regular season titles meant nothing to him, nor did the SEC tournament. He just did not understand what UK basketball was all about and his attitude showed it.

[KentuckyWild2020]

Calipari crying about the transfer portal. Thinks you should only be allowed one transfer.


He's falling behind. His one and done philosophy and student athletes getting paid opened up Pandora's box, now he's crying..

[wildcatdon]

Wouldn’t upset me if Arkansas lost every game this season.

[KentuckyWild2020]

Cal (1) did have more losing seasons than Hall (0), Pitino (0) and Smith (0).


Hall and Pitino did have 1 each .500 season.

Neither of them had a 9-16 season.

None of them ever had as much talent either.

Cal should have won 5 titles with all of the talent. Instead, he started his faves and played his faves more minutes and invented the vaunted and much afear'd Prevent Offense.

When Cal came aboard, he talked of UCLA and Kentucky breaking all the records.

I will give him credit, he did break some records. The kind of records you would never imagine at a place like KENTUCKY, the wrong kind!!!!!!

I appreciate what he did when it was good but when it was bad it was bad, school yard Sunday afternoon park pickup game stuff...

I also agree about the titles and talent, 58 players that came through played pro ball at some point or was drafted, any coach in America would have loved to had that kind of talent.

[KentuckyWild2020]

Cal (1) did have more losing seasons than Hall (0), Pitino (0) and Smith (0).


Hall and Pitino did have 1 each .500 season.

Neither of them had a 9-16 season.

None of them ever had as much talent either.

Cal should have won 5 titles with all of the talent. Instead, he started his faves and played his faves more minutes and invented the vaunted and much afear'd Prevent Offense.

I would give you 20 thumbs up on this If I could, would even buy you a case of beer.

[Joneslab]

Cal should've won more titles but winning even a single title is brutally difficult.

I put them pretty close when ranking them. Tubby didn't have the obscene highs Cal had post-1998, but he also didn't have the depressing lows.

I don't think the COVID season should preclude Cal from the rafters...but by the same token it definitely knocks down his legacy when you start trying to place him in a historical context with other coaches. The same can be said of Tubby's lack of Final Fours with his own players.

Both complicated coaches with a lot of gray areas. Both never reached Pitino's greatness, although Cal flirted closely with it. I'm glad both moved on when they did. But both should probably be in the rafters.

[KentuckyWild2020]

Cal should've won more titles but winning even a single title is brutally difficult.

I put them pretty close when ranking them. Tubby didn't have the obscene highs Cal had post-1998, but he also didn't have the depressing lows.

I don't think the COVID season should preclude Cal from the rafters...but by the same token it definitely knocks down his legacy when you start trying to place him in a historical context with other coaches. The same can be said of Tubby's lack of Final Fours with his own players.

Both complicated coaches with a lot of gray areas. Both never reached Pitino's greatness, although Cal flirted closely with it. I'm glad both moved on when they did. But both should probably be in the rafters.

I will agree with the first part of your statement as well. Winning a title no matter how many good players you have is and will always be a challenging task, it just aint easy.

I do think the Wall team, the 12 team, and the team that lost to Wisconsin was the best team in the land those years and 3 from Cal would have been nice.

The Wisconsin game stung but so did the Arizona loss, we beat those teams 99 out of 100 in my opinion.

To me 98 was a gift. Tubby pulled the right strings in the end and the players had the determination to see it through, just a magical ride how it all went down.

[Joneslab]

Had Cal won the titles with those three teams, he would have to be considered the greatest to ever coach the game of college basketball. That would be four championships in an era where it's hard as hell to do it...I think that's more impressive than Wooden and Coach K.

You can spin that two ways. One, what a missed opportunity, and those missed opportunities make him infinitely flawed as a coach. Or you can say that being on the cusp of that was at least borderline historic, showing that he was in the mix almost every season in his first 7 or 8 here.

I come down sort of in the middle...but not because of the missed titles necessarily. For me what happened since 2021 vastly outweighs the missed titles. It's those last few years that knock him down several notches on the all-time greats list, beneath guys like Roy Williams and probably even Bill Self.

[KentuckyWild2020]

Had Cal won the titles with those three teams, he would have to be considered the greatest to ever coach the game of college basketball. That would be four championships in an era where it's hard as hell to do it...I think that's more impressive than Wooden and Coach K.

You can spin that two ways. One, what a missed opportunity, and those missed opportunities make him infinitely flawed as a coach. Or you can say that being on the cusp of that was at least borderline historic, showing that he was in the mix almost every season in his first 7 or 8 here.

I come down sort of in the middle...but not because of the missed titles necessarily. For me what happened since 2021 vastly outweighs the missed titles. It's those last few years that knock him down several notches on the all-time greats list, beneath guys like Roy Williams and probably even Bill Self.

Silver lining, had Cal won more, he would still be here and we would be stuck until it ran it's course. Mediocre basketball, lies lies and more lies. I guess each and everyone of us would be in a check out line at the pharmacy getting a prescription filled because "you people are crazy". At first I thought he was joking ( we are crazy about UK basketball but as time went on, he really meant it, he thought us backwood Kentucky hillbilly's where crazy.

I still get a little irritated when some folks outside of Kentucky just assume we are all racist and dumb hillbilly's, it's the farthest thing from the truth..

[WeWant9]

I come down sort of in the middle...but not because of the missed titles necessarily. For me what happened since 2021 vastly outweighs the missed titles. It's those last few years that knock him down several notches on the all-time greats list, beneath guys like Roy Williams and probably even Bill Self.

Might get some flack for this, but I view Cal on the same level as an Izzo or Boehiem. I thought he had a golden opportunity to move up when a lot of the greats retired and NIL/ the portal was ramping up. It seemed like it was there for his taking, but instead Self took advantage and got himself another title. Cal couldn't get out of his own way.

Honestly, if Cal won just one more title I think his legacy looks a lot different.

[Joneslab]

Might get some flack for this, but I view Cal on the same level as an Izzo or Boehiem. I thought he had a golden opportunity to move up when a lot of the greats retired and NIL/ the portal was ramping up. It seemed like it was there for his taking, but instead Self took advantage and got himself another title. Cal couldn't get out of his own way.

Honestly, if Cal won just one more title I think his legacy looks a lot different.

Yeah, I agree.

The consistency Izzo has shown though probably puts him ahead of Cal. It's certainly close.

Boeheim is in that orbit but the sheer length of his career makes it so he has a whole lot of misses: NIT appearances, missing the tournament completely, one year when they were on probation. There's a lot of "stuff" in Boeheim's career most coaches didn't have.

[DA#23]

Honestly, if Cal won just one more title I think his legacy looks a lot different.

I agree. He should have had three total, one more at UK and the 2008 title at Memphis.

[EKYCat]

I know I sound like the most ardent Cal defender alive. I am really not. His tenure is marked by great success, some significant failure, and a lot of "shoulda, woulda, coulda" but the man's overall record is 874-206 (including vacated wins). His time has come and gone. He isn't the same coach he was in the mid 90s or even in 2018. He wore out his welcome here with his schtick and his refusal to do some of the most basic coaching things such as refusing to play zone, refusing to learn how to play a zone offense, sub patterns, etc.

I think you could look at any coach that has had multiple final fours and say "should have won it that year." Pitino gets to a FF in 1992 if he puts a man on the ball. Could have won it all in 1993. Lost to Kevin O'Neill and Marquette in 1994. Should have beaten Miles Simon and Arizona in 1997. Tubby should have definitely had a couple more final four appearances. Any sane coach in the world could win it all in 2015.

Izzo has won 100 less games in his career and has as many titles as Cal. Boeheim won over 1,000 games but over a period of 47 years.

[WeWant9]

I know I sound like the most ardent Cal defender alive. I am really not. His tenure is marked by great success, some significant failure, and a lot of "shoulda, woulda, coulda" but the man's overall record is 874-206 (including vacated wins). His time has come and gone. He isn't the same coach he was in the mid 90s or even in 2018. He wore out his welcome here with his schtick and his refusal to do some of the most basic coaching things such as refusing to play zone, refusing to learn how to play a zone offense, sub patterns, etc.

I think you could look at any coach that has had multiple final fours and say "should have won it that year." Pitino gets to a FF in 1992 if he puts a man on the ball. Could have won it all in 1993. Lost to Kevin O'Neill and Marquette in 1994. Should have beaten Miles Simon and Arizona in 1997. Tubby should have definitely had a couple more final four appearances. Any sane coach in the world could win it all in 2015.

Izzo has won 100 less games in his career and has as many titles as Cal. Boeheim won over 1,000 games but over a period of 47 years.

I do agree that any successful coach will have a list of what ifs. Of course, we focus on Cal’s more than others.

curious, what tier/group of coaches would you put Cal with?