Biggest duds KY starting 5

[kyiltxCAT]

Alex Legion.
You youngsters… look him up.

[KentuckyWild2020]

I absolutely agree here. Calipari, for whatever reason, did kind of discriminate (let's be honest, just keeping it real) against Hood and white players in general. I agree and have no doubt that Harrelson would have been a "fewer than 5 minutes per game" player has Kanter not been ruled Ineligible by the NCAA. We also saw how few white players Cal even brought to Kentucky. Kyle Wiltjer didn't see a lot of PT his first two years at Kentucky and then transfers to Gonzaga where he becomes an All-American. Rumor has it that Cal didn't want Wiltjer to announce his decision for UK until after (or close to the end of) the recruitment period was over for fear that it might discourage other players (that he obviously wanted more) from coming to Kentucky. And then there was Luke Kennard, a lifetime Kentucky fan from Ohio who ends up going to Duke! Coach K's track record with white recruits ran circles around Cal's. Tyler Herro was the one white player brought in to be a starter AND given big minutes to. Not even the third overall NBA draft pick last year, legacy son of a former Wildcat and reigning Kentucky Mr. Basketball could crack Cal's starting lineup, regardless how well he was playing. Could this have been a coincidence? Possibly....but considering Cal's first two rosters at Arkansas and his Memphis rosters prior to coming to Kentucky it's highly doubtful.




Just like I defended Hood against the allegations of sucking, I will do the same for Mays.

I didn't think that Mays was all that bad, but it's been a while. So I had to look up his stats for his lone season at UK.

Yes, his FG% stunk, but his three point and free throw shooting percentages were very good. He also averaged 3 boards and 3 assists, which were very respectable. So no, I wouldn't say he "sucked", maybe just didn't measure up to your expectations.

So I will leave both Hood and Mays alone and let it rest in peace, it's like 12 years ago, not like Hood is even remotely close to being a favorite player of mine. He was no Rex Chapman, no Shepperd, Hawkins, Willis, Miller or many other Kentucky born players. Still one has to wonder why every year in the NCAA tournament so no name kid from so no named school is absolutely destroying some Marquee named NCAA team?


Over the years I have had many debates on this site in regards to Kentucky players like Hood but most have always just assumed I wanted kids like Hood to succeed because they where from Kentucky and white, wrong!!!

If possible, I want any Kentucky kid who's gifted enough to make the UK roster to be successful, I think they give more or at least they used too, maybe not now with NIL and everything else involved. White or black it never mattered, I just wanted players like Epps, Estill ,Miller, Hood, Chapman, Bennet, Casey, Pelphrey, Rajon, all to succeed in blue, the list goes on and on.

Back to Cal, It does seem like Cal had some kind of bias towards certain players good or not and and also a problem with other certain type of players. It was almost like he punished Kentucky born kids for being from Kentucky, just weird. I don't think anyone would agree that a team full of Kentucky players is going to win a National title but it's still good to have Kentucky born players on the team who represents what it's all about in my opinion.

Maybe in Calipari's NBA days he saw so much talent that he determined you either have it or you don't ?Maybe it was his desire to get kids drafted so he could brag about it?

I do know one thing, Cal was horrible at developing talent. Many of the NBA guys that came through Kentucky would have gone pro playing for Bellarmine or at the park on Sunday afternoon, just didn't matter. Cal was and is still good at getting kids mentally prepared for the next level, but X's and O's coaching development skills absolutely sucks. Funny how so many came through UK and almost immediately after in the pro game these guys are lighting it up...

[KentuckyWild2020]

Unfortunately, I believe you are correct. Cal placed such an emphasis on "athleticism" that he overlooked basketball players. Period. Could you see Cal recruiting a Larry Bird or a Luka Doncic or a Nikola Jokic? I couldn't. Not without a really strong nudge from people close to and around him. A lot of times he recruited "great athletes" that couldn't shoot to save their lives. We all know how poorly a majority of Cal's teams shot free throws, and how often that would come back to bite him.

That said, I think Pope adjusted his strategy for the upcoming season based on how athletic and physical the SEC was last year. I think he focused more on players that could bring speed, athleticism and toughness that may have been missing last year. Did he overcorrect and adjust too much? Time will tell, but this year's team likely won't shoot the ball and put quite as many points on the board as they did last year. Will it matter? In the end, hopefully not...but if it does the one thing we can rest assured of is that Mark Pope will continue tinkering and adjusting until he finds the right mix. That's the thing I have to give Mark Pope credit for that I refuse to give to John Calipari: when Mark Pope sees something that needs to be addressed, he takes action. He doesn't use the same excuses and do the exact same things like he has for previous years....year, after year, after year.

Damn, it's a breathe of fresh air to actually hear from others without the blue tinted glasses on..

Bird, Doncic, Jokic, would never get recruited by Calipari.

Kyle Wiltjer said hold my beer, I will just be slow non athletic and go score crazy points for a pretty good school and coach out west, a freaking coach that actually believes in me...

[KentuckyWild2020]

To be fair, this is what most coaches have always done. Assistants evaluate, follow progress and build relationships with recruits. And the head coach closes. Cal was really good at the latter.

I think you're selling him short. Cal was a fine evaluator of talent for years (decades, even), until he got lazy. He was an even better judge of character; of all the top tier guys he brought to Kentucky, how many bad apples did we have? That's almost statistically unheard of.

John Calipari was the best recruiter in the history of college basketball for about fifteen years. You don't get that label if you're just throwing darts at the recruiting service lists.

Mark Pope says hold my beer..

Assistants may put in the leg work initially but if you not passing Pope's eye test of vision of what he thinks a player could be in his system, you aint playing at Kentucky...

I agree that Cal was a great recruiter at Kentucky but let's be honest, he used us just as much as we used him. He took our brand our tradition and sold it to these kids. D. Rose Evans Camby but come to Kentucky, this dude was like a kid in a candy store selling his brand. The name Kentucky sold just as hard as Cal. Plus he used JAY Z DRAKE LEBRON or any other celebrity he could think of to sell his brand at Kentucky, marketing sales 101...

[KentuckyWild2020]

I have said this for 25 plus years.

Once the scouting guru's figure out how to put a rating on the size of a kid's heart ( heart of champion) , they will have it all figured out.

Some kids are alpha's, just winners, built different.

* This message is approved by Chris Lofton

[SportsFan]

Damn, it's a breathe of fresh air to actually hear from others without the blue tinted glasses on..

Thanks. For better or worse, I'm guilty as charged. I may love and root for my favorite teams, but I'm too old for many of the new age "participation trophy" ways of thinking. I'm old school in the sense of calling a spade a spade and hoping that a little tough love will motivate others....if for nothing else, to tell the truth. I've never seen any improvement as a result of unfettered love and admiration for mediocrity.

I do know one thing, Cal was horrible at developing talent. Many of the NBA guys that came through Kentucky would have gone pro playing for Bellarmine or at the park on Sunday afternoon, just didn't matter. Cal was and is still good at getting kids mentally prepared for the next level, but X's and O's coaching development skills absolutely sucks. Funny how so many came through UK and almost immediately after in the pro game these guys are lighting it up...

Have to agree. If Cal is going to be recognized and praised for his recruiting, his inability to actually improve a player's game and/or stock also deserves to be pointed out.

[KentuckyWild2020]

Thanks. For better or worse, I'm guilty as charged. I may love and root for my favorite teams, but I'm too old for many of the new age "participation trophy" ways of thinking. I'm old school in the sense of calling a spade a spade and hoping that a little tough love will motivate others....if for nothing else, to tell the truth. I've never seen any improvement as a result of unfettered love and admiration for mediocrity.



Have to agree. If Cal is going to be recognized and praised for his recruiting, his inability to actually improve a player's game and/or stock also deserves to be pointed out.

Have to agree.

With all that being said, I actually wanted Cal at Kentucky before Gillispie. Back in the 90's, Rick was my coach but Cal was the other guy who I respected. Cal knows how to coach obviously but it seemed like he threw the X's and O's part out of the equation when he went PRO, i think he came back to college a different coach with a different philosophy and his ego evolved, he forgot about the fundamentals, blows my mind..

Cal at Kentucky was great until it wasn't. Still think the Wall team was a let down, had all the pieces, wish he would have re recruited Jodie Meeks the same way he recruited others. The Wisconsin meltdown was a lost title, maybe one more along the way, who knows. For all the success and 45 plus NBA picks ( last time I checked may a few more)that came through Kentucky, I actually think he underachieved, the basketball version of 90's Buffalo Bills.


One thing that still blows my mind. Makes me think of the Arsenio Hall show way back in the day. How does Calipari still manage to kick Pitino's butt almost each and every time?? It's crazy and through everything I think I know or don't know, still don't get it......

[KYNomad]

Cal had a boner for athletes because he didn’t know how to utilize guys that weren’t. He didn’t have the offensive or defensive schemes that utilize guy’s skills and cover for their weaknesses. He needed guys that could run, jump, react because he needed guys to make individual plays in their own situational capacity on the court instead of within a schematic plan. Much of his defense was channel guys through the middle and let the athletic forward or big react and pick up the slack. When Cal didn’t have elite middle men is when you really saw the wheels fall off. Also why losing Kenny Payne was determental to Cal. Also part of why he had trouble adjusting to five out basketball.

[Morgousky]

Yeah, I'm the same. Born in 83, my first real memories are of Pitinos teams. Some of the guys in Cal's latter years are who would make my list, I'll leave it there.

Same. Born in mid 80’s, first memories are of Pelphrey but mainly Travis Ford and Mash. I think some of mine come from Tubby’s teams, although now I have a ton of respect for those players. Didn’t quite realize how much I’d miss those days. Could not have imagined where college basketball would end up down the road. At the time I thought all Kentucky basketball is was centered around the 90’s and Pitino, it’s all I knew. So Tubby wasn’t cutting it to my high school brain.

looking back. Although I was angry everytime I saw Perry and Thomas take the court, I’m fine with them. Then I was used to early Calipari, and my skin would crawl watching wheeler and ware. I can honestly say wheeler is one of my all time least favs, and I don’t believe Calipari went from Wall to Wheeler by accident. I’ll leave it there.

[DA#23]

Same. Born in mid 80’s, first memories are of Pelphrey but mainly Travis Ford and Mash. I think some of mine come from Tubby’s teams, although now I have a ton of respect for those players. Didn’t quite realize how much I’d miss those days. Could not have imagined where college basketball would end up down the road. At the time I thought all Kentucky basketball is was centered around the 90’s and Pitino, it’s all I knew. So Tubby wasn’t cutting it to my high school brain.

looking back. Although I was angry everytime I saw Perry and Thomas take the court, I’m fine with them. Then I was used to early Calipari, and my skin would crawl watching wheeler and ware. I can honestly say wheeler is one of my all time least favs, and I don’t believe Calipari went from Wall to Wheeler by accident. I’ll leave it there.

"From Wall to Wheeler" sounds like the memoir Calipari could write some day after he's done at Arkansas.

[KentuckyWild2020]

Cal had a boner for athletes because he didn’t know how to utilize guys that weren’t. He didn’t have the offensive or defensive schemes that utilize guy’s skills and cover for their weaknesses. He needed guys that could run, jump, react because he needed guys to make individual plays in their own situational capacity on the court instead of within a schematic plan. Much of his defense was channel guys through the middle and let the athletic forward or big react and pick up the slack. When Cal didn’t have elite middle men is when you really saw the wheels fall off. Also why losing Kenny Payne was determental to Cal. Also part of why he had trouble adjusting to five out basketball.

He does have a boner for athletes,still does. Feels like little man syndrome. In his early basketball playing days, someone must have bullied abused and posterized him on court or playground 😆 🤣 😂

[KYJeff1]

I don't know how you can list 5 players and BJ Boston isn’t one of them. That guy played for the other team every game. He played ME-BALL, but he was only good enough to beat 55 gallon drums in a random warehouse.

Schaedon Sharpe, Wheeler, Dragon and Quade are my other 4.

Edwards coming off the bench, which is ironic, considering Cal played him like he was MJ.

[Joneslab]

If John Calipari didn't have recruiting services that ranked high school basketball players, he would be lost. Period. Cal simply recruits based off of what scouting services tell him. He wouldn't have the ability to look at an unranked Jamal Mashburn like Rick Pitino did, and see something that told him "this guy is special". Nope. Cal doesn't operate that way. That's too much work. He needs somebody else to do the deciding regarding a player's ability for him and then he'll go into salesman mode and recruit that kid. But deciding and determining if a player is capable of being a first round draft pick on his own, without any scouting service's input??? Are you kidding???

I actually thought for many years there Cal was an extremely good talent scout. He coveted what the NBA used to covet (before the Steph era), and it obviously worked out for us through those first few years.

I don't think he was using the scouting services to guide him. In fact we had several players who went up in the rankings simply by dint of Cal recruiting them.

Later on things changed, mostly because he just couldn't get those players he coveted like he was doing in the first years. And in that Curry era, Cal didn't catch up quickly enough to realize corner threes, spread-out offenses, and "threes/dunks only" were becoming the currency of the day. So he fell back on athletes that couldn't play and/or guys who needed some seasoning while the one-and-done philosophy stuck on the program like dog crap, and the whole thing began to topple.

Cal still found some absolute gems. Shai being the goat, but Quickley, Herro, Sheppard, even guys like PJ Washington became incredibly good players.

So I won't ding him on his scouting. I think it was more coaching (primarily defensive preparation) + the flawed one and done philosophy that eventually got him.

[EKYCat]

If John Calipari didn't have recruiting services that ranked high school basketball players, he would be lost. Period. Cal simply recruits based off of what scouting services tell him. He wouldn't have the ability to look at an unranked Jamal Mashburn like Rick Pitino did, and see something that told him "this guy is special". Nope. Cal doesn't operate that way. That's too much work. He needs somebody else to do the deciding regarding a player's ability for him and then he'll go into salesman mode and recruit that kid. But deciding and determining if a player is capable of being a first round draft pick on his own, without any scouting service's input??? Are you kidding???

I have to agree with Joneslab on his reply here. Also, all coaches are using recruiting and ranking services. And Mashburn wasn't some diamond in the rough type of guy like a Josh Allen on the football field. He was NY Mr. Basketball and a 2nd team Parade All American.

I get the Cal hate. I really do. I was ready for him to go a long time ago. But let's quit acting like the guy was completely clueless and a lazy bum his entire tenure here. His first six years are legendary stuff, including a national title.

[George]

I have to agree with Joneslab on his reply here. Also, all coaches are using recruiting and ranking services. And Mashburn wasn't some diamond in the rough type of guy like a Josh Allen on the football field. He was NY Mr. Basketball and a 2nd team Parade All American.

I get the Cal hate. I really do. I was ready for him to go a long time ago. But let's quit acting like the guy was completely clueless and a lazy bum his entire tenure here. His first six years are legendary stuff, including a national title.

As well as a lot of years prior to his time at Kentucky.