Upset With Some Fans

[Catgrad7072]

I’m a retired corporate guy. Every company that I worked for always told us, ’keep your politics out of the workplace. What you do on your own time away from work is up to you.’

The athletes are compensated, by UK, in the form of a scholarship for their basketball skills.
IMO, that makes the basketball arena their workplace. Thus, they should not be making political statements. After the game, let them join other students on campus and protest as they see fit.

Also, much has been made on this and other forums about the booing at the Vanderbilt game.
IMO, by kneeling during the anthem, the team and coaches have essentially booed our flag, our country and all those who have served. That’s just unacceptable to me.

[George]

The athletes are compensated, by UK, in the form of a scholarship for their basketball skills.
IMO, that makes the basketball arena their workplace. Thus, they should not be making political statements. After the game, let them join other students on campus and protest as they see fit.

Other students are on scholarship for other things — academics, for example. Does that mean those students shouldn’t make political statements, as well? Can only non-scholarship students protest and make political statements?

[Joneslab]

It won't take several generations. It's here now. The dumbing down of America has been a slow burn. This isn't a new problem. It's been going on for decades.

Just because these particular players are tuned in to a protest many here don't agree with doesn't make them dumb. (And I don't really think that's what you're saying.)

I've seen on this board for years that younger generations are misguided or soft or whatever. I've been here more than 20 years. This means that the people that used to have that said about them are now in their 40s and it's *them* who bemoan how dumb kids are.

I think some of that may just be bitterness at getting old rather than anything that can be factually proven.

[Joneslab]

And also, let's be honest with ourselves here: we're living in a time when the polls show that an embarrassing percentage of adults thinks the United States government is run by lizard people and a cabal of Satanic pedophiles is roaming around unchecked in Congress.

I don't think ignorance is what's going on here with this particular protest. Maybe it's just me.

[GOCAT15]

Other students are on scholarship for other things — academics, for example. Does that mean those students shouldn’t make political statements, as well? Can only non-scholarship students protest and make political statements?

Agreed, that is a slippery slope if you want to start picking and choosing who to censor while being a public institution. In my opinion should never happen, unless it gets to a point where property is getting damaged during protests, etc.

[Joneslab]

I mentioned the fact above that you don't see many people who "feel' both sides of the issue.

That isn't quite true. It does happen. In fact it happened last year with the Miami Heat and the excellent story of Meyers Leonard.

https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/heats-meyers-leonard-stands-for-anthem-with-teammates-support-174924459.html

[Joneslab]

Yahoo! writer blasts Calipari for throwing his players under the bus and not being all-in on the protest.

Cal was a little mealy in his response about the protest, but that's not really out of character for Cal. He often just kind of spitballs while he's speaking.

https://sports.yahoo.com/john-calipari-drops-ball-in-questioning-kentuckys-player-protest-of-capitol-violence-001611033.html

[Matt Dillon]

I've seen on this board for years that younger generations are misguided or soft or whatever. I've been here more than 20 years. This means that the people that used to have that said about them are now in their 40s and it's *them* who bemoan how dumb kids are.

It's been this way for as long as I can remember, Will. Back when I was growing up, in the '50's and '60's, most teenagers didn't seem to get a lot of respect.

[Westtncat]

Pretending this is about a protest is where they lose me. That's all you heard when this all first started. It's not about the flag. It is most definitely about the flag otherwise they would kneel at a stop sign. Eventually Kaepernick came out and said the American flag was racist symbol. So you'can see his thought process all along.

For a protest to work it must have a goal. Rosa Park stood up to change policies that were directed at black people. She succeeded. You can kneel from now until the end of time and you can't change what an individual does or thinks in a highly stressful situation. There are no policies that direct police to handle black people any differently than any other race. Also not to get too political but the protest and mob mentality start before all the facts are even known. One example is the Michael Brown case. Even after an autopsy proved the witness was lying the NBA continued the hands up don't shoot. This in my opinion is divisive and diminishes future cases that actually could be worth fighting for. I want all people to be treated fairly.

What is the purpose of the anthem? You have 23 hours and 58 minutes in a day to make difference outside that. Why not use it? As far as I can tell the only thing kneeling has done so far is divide people. If someone can point me to an instance where it has saved someone I would interested to hear that.

[Joneslab]

I'm not sure if a protest has to be successful or it shouldn't be done.

A lot of civil rights protests in the 1960s changed the minds of no one, obviously. And, worse, they got a lot of people killed.

I think, very simply, the players were stricken by some of the visuals we saw last week at the Capitol. One being the Confederate Flag in there.

As a writer for the state government I've written a lot about the history of the Commonwealth of Kentucky and how Kentucky, during the Civil War, fought extremely hard to not allow the Confederate Flag anywhere near its government. There was actually a time when Confederates stormed the State House, began drafting an actual Constitution, but were run out by the Union before the thing could be signed.

That we looked on TV and saw that flag in the United States Capitol...that's unsettling to many Americans, particularly black Americans.

I agree with the over-arching point that this particular protest changed very few people's minds in Kentucky. But I do think it's important to have a little bit of a grasp of why they might have done it.

[Westtncat]

Will I agree that you don't protest only if you have success. What I am saying is that protesting a straw man type bad guy will change nothing. Then again I'm sure it's the only thing they have the power to do. I don't think the kids have any evil intentions I wish they knew the significance of the anthem and how it can evoke such hard feelings by not standing. There are other ways to help and to protest. I feel the cause would benefit if we found a way to be inclusive of other views. We have different lives different backgrounds and many different opinions. The flag is the one place we can say we are all in this together. JMO

[Joneslab]

What I am saying is that protesting a straw man type bad guy will change nothing.

I agree with your overall point. You would think the National Anthem at a sporting event would be a "safe space." But it isn't, and it has been used as a vehicle of protest for decades.

But I'm not sure they were protesting a straw man?

The way I took it they were protesting white supremacists at the riots last week. There was a thing I saw on Reddit that traced a lot of these guys' patches they were wearing on their camo; many went back to white supremacist and neo-nazi organizations. And if that surprises anyone, it shouldn't.

I think the point they were trying to make is that if black people did the same thing, they likely would have been shot.

They aren't the only ones who have noted this. Many whites have noted the same thing. See the Twitter feed, for example, of Republican State Senator Whitney Westerfield.

[George]

The flag is the one place we can say we are all in this together. JMO

Unless you’re part of a population who views themselves as disenfranchised.

[Westtncat]

Will. This is the first have heard about white supremacist so yes it does surprise me. I am in some political forums and haven't heard it there.

[Dwight Schrute]

The flag is the one place we can say we are all in this together. JMO

If we want to pigeon hole the flag and anthem down to being only about the troops, then maybe. But the flag and national anthem are always implied to be honoring our country and its core tenets which are greater than any individuals, no matter how highly regarded they are.

The Pledge of Allegiance ends with the words 'with liberty and justice for all' - similar refrains are in the Declaration of Independence - "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."

To this day liberty and justice too often eludes particularly young black men. That's what these kids are protesting and kneeling for the flag for. We haven't been in this together for the most part.