Upset With Some Fans

[Joneslab]

People just don't want to understand both.

I'm actually not sure that this is it.

I literally don't understand the other side in the way that, say, jload is talking about above.

It's not that I don't want to. I do. Like all of us, I think veterans have a special place in our country. I firmly believe that.

But just on the level of emotion and "pride" as Lighthouse says, I feel it way more when I see black Americans talking about their experience.

I'm not really sure why that is. I think Matt is right that it's partly because I didn't serve, but that doesn't answer to it completely. Part of is my age. Part of it is where I live.

But I think a lot of it gets back to just the way people process political differences and what issues hit us emotionally.

[teamchemistry15]

I think people need to try and figure out a way to understand that the American flag means more than just supporting the military. You can be unhappy with things in the country and not disrespect veterans. It would be like a UK tennis fan being upset with people for calling for Cal to be fired after the beginning of this season. When anyone kneels during the anthem look at it as someone being upset about basketball and not assuming they want a new tennis coach.

[40bill]

Any type of protest carries a built in risk. There is always a chance for it to be misinterpreted, as well as the chance it stirs feelings you didnt intend.
protest takes courage.
These young men showed courage...they have everything to lose in popularity, recognition, good will. Unlike their coach, who is going to be well compensated no matter what.

While I disagree with this particular type of protest, I have to ask what attention their cause would receive if not done in the basketball arena. Would we even notice?

In short, part of freedom is the right to peacefully protest. It's what my family and friends died for in different God forsaken places.

I disagree with the method, I admire the courage.

[Lighthouse]

Again, I have no problem with players kneeling to protest. I witnessed several instances of why they kneel when I coached at The Cabbage Patch. But find another time to do it other than during the National Anthem. For instance, last night prior to the game, our entire team stood with arms around each other and heads bowed in observance of Ben Jordan's passing. I've not heard anyone objecting to that time of silence. I think it would be more special if a time like that was created just for a statement being made, and not very many would complain.

[George]

I think it would be more special if a time like that was created just for a statement being made, and not very many would complain.

I can't think of a stronger antithesis to genuine protest than an institutionally-approved time set aside for protest.

[Joneslab]

Again, I have no problem with players kneeling to protest. I witnessed several instances of why they kneel when I coached at The Cabbage Patch. But find another time to do it other than during the National Anthem. For instance, last night prior to the game, our entire team stood with arms around each other and heads bowed in observance of Ben Jordan's passing. I've not heard anyone objecting to that time of silence. I think it would be more special if a time like that was created just for a statement being made, and not very many would complain.

I agree with you.

But I do think you'd have a (very) vocal minority who wouldn't be happy with that.

There's always been this "stick to sports" thing with regard to any statement athletes make about race, politics, etc. I really believe if they carved aside a time for the athletes to protest or even address social justice stuff, you'd get pushback from a lot of UK fans who just don't see why they're doing it at all.

In this discussion we can't deny that there's a decent percentage of our fanbase who just thinks the whole issue is nonsense. If you think kneeling at the flag is virtue signaling, there's a pretty good chance that you'll think any statement about race is virtue signaling.

This gets back to how uncomfortable of a conversation this is. I saw a thread about the 1966 Texas Western game just three or four years ago over on Rivals. When it was thrown out that that game was historic, many UK fans just didn't want to hear that.

That, IMO, is a problem.

[Spiritof96]

I'm actually not sure that this is it.

I literally don't understand the other side in the way that, say, jload is talking about above.

It's not that I don't want to. I do. Like all of us, I think veterans have a special place in our country. I firmly believe that.

But just on the level of emotion and "pride" as Lighthouse says, I feel it way more when I see black Americans talking about their experience.

I'm not really sure why that is. I think Matt is right that it's partly because I didn't serve, but that doesn't answer to it completely. Part of is my age. Part of it is where I live.

But I think a lot of it gets back to just the way people process political differences and what issues hit us emotionally.

What would be a few examples of things that you hold to be sacred? (This isn't a personal attack, but rather an exploration of this inability to understand)

[Joneslab]

What would be a few examples of things that you hold to be sacred? (This isn't a personal attack, but rather an exploration of this inability to understand)

"Sacred"? Probably only my family?

I don't know if there's anything else. I usually don't think about things in that high-minded way. I definitely wouldn't call the race stuff sacred but I have always had a thing for racial injustice, going back to when I was about 12.

Don't know why. Part of it might be my family, as I have black cousins. A big part of it is I saw such awful racism in my hometown.

But I wouldn't call it a sacred belief necessarily. I guess I'm ashamed to say that I find no idea or philosophy sacred. I find some super important but not in a way that I would be willing to die for them or anything like that.

I married a very religious person but don't really have any religious opinions or thoughts myself. I find spiritualism off-putting in the same way I do when I see people chanting "USA!" with tears in their eyes.

Having said that, I feel a lot of pride watching UK basketball. That's weird I know but I think it has to do with what my family taught me. I come from a line of folks who didn't go to church at all and who didn't serve in the armed forces.

[Spiritof96]

Accidental double post.

[Spiritof96]

"Sacred"? Probably only my family?

I don't know if there's anything else. I usually don't think about things in that high-minded way. I definitely wouldn't call the race stuff sacred but I have always had a thing for racial injustice, going back to when I was about 12.

Don't know why. Part of it might be my family, as I have black cousins. A big part of it is I saw such awful racism in my hometown.

But I wouldn't call it a sacred belief necessarily. I guess I'm ashamed to say that I find no idea or philosophy sacred. I find some super important but not in a way that I would be willing to die for them or anything like that.

I married a very religious person but don't really have any religious opinions or thoughts myself. I find spiritualism off-putting in the same way I do when I see people chanting "USA!" with tears in their eyes.

Having said that, I feel a lot of pride watching UK basketball. That's weird I know but I think it has to do with what my family taught me. I come from a line of folks who didn't go to church at all and who didn't serve in the armed forces.

At a basic level, I think that a significant source of the outrage about the Anthem and flag has to do less with soldiers and more to do with the fact that the flag, anthem, and their conception of what it stands for is sacred, so for them the protests aren't about what protesters say it's about, it's about an attack on something fundamental to who they are and what they hold as dear and sacred.

I have noticed that most of the people I talk to who "can't understand the outrage" have few if any items that they hold as sacred in that same way. There is also this undercurrent of an accusation in this particular protest that sort of implies that if you aren't kneeling you are part of the problem but I think that is secondary by a large margin.

I'm not on that corner at all. I don't like the kneeling protests for all sorts of reasons, time and place or anthem or flag isn't really one of them, but I understand the outrage.

[Blue Heaven]

I really don't understand the outrage. Significant strides have been made, but unfortunately you can't fix stupid. There was a guy at work who berated a nice lady because she got where she is because of "white priviledge". I guess he was too ignorant to see that he is exactly where she is. This is the thinking for a large segment of society today. There will never be a perfect society so we need to stop this nonsense of trying to create one.

[SCBlu]

Any type of protest carries a built in risk. There is always a chance for it to be misinterpreted, as well as the chance it stirs feelings you didnt intend.
protest takes courage.
These young men showed courage...they have everything to lose in popularity, recognition, good will. Unlike their coach, who is going to be well compensated no matter what.

While I disagree with this particular type of protest, I have to ask what attention their cause would receive if not done in the basketball arena. Would we even notice?

In short, part of freedom is the right to peacefully protest. It's what my family and friends died for in different God forsaken places.

I disagree with the method, I admire the courage.

"Courage" ??? So if they went one step further and burned our flag that would be even more "courageous"?
Courage is standing before an armored tank in Tiananmen Square....not trying to make a point by denigrating the very symbols that give them the right to peacefully protest. Another several generations of this crap, coupled with a misguided educational system, and we will have lost what has made us an exceptional nation.

[Jload]

My uncle Barney ran up a hill under machine gun fire at Iwo, that was courage. He and I and many more like me believe that our country and the flag and anthem which are it’s symbols are special. Anyone who has traveled and seen this world as it really is knows that we hit the lottery being born here. America has always stood for freedom and that is unique, once again anyone who has seen much of the world understands this. Is the country perfect no , but I cannot understand how denigrating the honor and SACRIFICE of 200 years defending that symbol of freedom makes America a better place. I will tolerate it as many like me will because freedom of expression, is our way, but I will NEVER condone it.

[Blue Heaven]

"Courage" ??? So if they went one step further and burned our flag that would be even more "courageous"?
Courage is standing before an armored tank in Tiananmen Square....not trying to make a point by denigrating the very symbols that give them the right to peacefully protest. Another several generations of this crap, coupled with a misguided educational system, and we will have lost what has made us an exceptional nation.

It won't take several generations. It's here now. The dumbing down of America has been a slow burn. This isn't a new problem. It's been going on for decades.

[Matt Dillon]

It won't take several generations. It's here now. The dumbing down of America has been a slow burn. This isn't a new problem. It's been going on for decades.

I was going to post the same thing before I saw your post, BH.