ESPN analyst has several UK players in NBA Draft update, but the Harrison twins

[kynut]

I think there is a lesson in there somewhere:.......... Don't believe everything you hear or read. Hype is just hype and mostly BS cranked out by people who don't know any more about players than you or me.. It doesn't mean anything. The Harrisons aren't the first top ten players that aren't top ten when they first get to college. And, there are many unranked players who work their way into the top ten and turn out better than advertised at some point (WCS). Perhaps the Harrisons need at least another year to mature just like Willie did.

Personally, I want to see a recruit play before I form an opinion. I trust my own eyes a lot more than someone else"s words. Watching last year's recruits I thought Okafor was the cream of the crop and Mudiay wasn't far behind. I still feel that way. Towns looked good to me because he competed hard against Okafor and held his own in the McD game. Several others, including Trey Lyles, were a small step behind those three in my eyes. Ulis, because of his size, has turned out to be much better than I (or almost anyone else for that matter) anticipated..So has Booker.

My whole point is - Don't fall for the propaganda machines that follow high school players. Trust only what you see and you'll rarely be disappointed.

kynut

[Joneslab]

Gottlieb and Seth Davis were just on CBS talking about Kentucky.

Gottlieb says that Ulis should be playing 35 minutes a game. Then he started to make a crack about the Harrisons' dad (remember, Gottlieb has always suggested that the Harrisons were bad apples), but was cut off by Davis.

I disagree with this. As much as I like Ulis, he's exactly where he should be. As his minutes went up, you'd start to see more and more warts because of his size.

Cal shouldn't change anything about the rotations to this point. I don't think you start mixing things up when you're at 13-0 and haven't really been truly threatened in any game.

[kynut]

Gottlieb and Seth Davis were just on CBS talking about Kentucky.

Gottlieb says that Ulis should be playing 35 minutes a game. Then he started to make a crack about the Harrisons' dad (remember, Gottlieb has always suggested that the Harrisons were bad apples), but was cut off by Davis.

I disagree with this. As much as I like Ulis, he's exactly where he should be. As his minutes went up, you'd start to see more and more warts because of his size.

Cal shouldn't change anything about the rotations to this point. I don't think you start mixing things up when you're at 13-0 and haven't really been truly threatened in any game.

I agree. A big part of the success of platooning (or at least semi-platooning) is the change-of-pace that forces the opponent to adapt to a different style and/or pace of play. Ulis is a big part of that change-of-pace. But, if he was on the floor for 35 minutes our opponents would soon find a way to overpower him. Plus, if he played 35 minutes he wouldn't be as fresh and able to keep that motor at high revs. I also would expect a long season of 35 minute games to take a toll on his body as the bumps and bruises mounted up.

I agree with Will.......Ulis is exactly where he needs to be.

kynut

[Lighthouse]

^And he's playing about the right minutes for now. When we play against quick guards, he will get a few more minutes.

[teamchemistry15]

I agree. A big part of the success of platooning (or at least semi-platooning) is the change-of-pace that forces the opponent to adapt to a different style and/or pace of play. Ulis is a big part of that change-of-pace. But, if he was on the floor for 35 minutes our opponents would soon find a way to overpower him. Plus, if he played 35 minutes he wouldn't be as fresh and able to keep that motor at high revs. I also would expect a long season of 35 minute games to take a toll on his body as the bumps and bruises mounted up.

I agree with Will.......Ulis is exactly where he needs to be.

kynut

Yup. This goes back to what an analyst was saying (I think Greenberg, but I am not sure) that this system not only allows them to get after it for a short stretch, but it also covers up some flaws that we would see if they played 30 or more minutes a game. Teams would be able to go after Dakari on a pick and roll to exploit his lack of speed, they would gameplan to post up a guard on Ulis, to isolate Andrew if there was a quicker guard, etc etc. With them rotating in and out, the opponents never get in a rhythm that allows them to exploit our weakness.

[UK39]

While I think Ulis is a better point guard, the system plays to his strengths as previously mentioned. They've suffered a serious injury to a key player, played one of the most difficult schedules against 3 top 10 teams, 4 in the top 20, one of them currently ranked 2nd in the RPI by 30 points on a neutral floor.

If the system breaks then fix it. Why tinker? Ill trust Cal on this one.

[Joneslab]

The system could play to Andrew's strengths too if he'd score through contact more. He wants to play with the ball way too much in traffic instead of just putting the basketball in. Or else he tries to throw a lob that isn't there. The Andrew we saw against Louisville and some of those other postseason games is an elite player. You just don't see that enough from him. Like Poythress, he's inconsistent.

One other thing about Andrew is that when he does play well, he often isn't going to wow you on the stat sheet. He tends to play well and just kind of control the game. He'll hit a few free throws. Or he won't turn it over. Sometimes it's difficult to see when he is playing well. He's like the opposite of John Wall.

[DA#23]

Sometimes it's difficult to see when he is playing well. He's like the opposite of John Wall.

I don't really understand this part of your post, and think it sounds like something some of the players previously afflicted by the John Wall Effect, which is likely to hairlip a motion offense near you and to do so soon, would say.

Does this mean that UK fans didn't understand the role of a pg offensively and the role of any UK player defensively before John Wall'd us? There's more substance to the game than showing you're a full step faster than everybody else. That step can help negate some turnovers and make acceptable a bit more gambling, as it did with John, but at the end of the day fundamentals and focus have to be on full display.

John Wall didn't muff it too many times because he was caught napping. John Wall didn't have John Calipari, bum hip and all, out on the court shoving him in the arse because he stopped playing ON OFFENSE.

Andrew's issues are mental and he needs to focus on getting his teammates involved and moving without the ball so that spacing may develop. Then all of the sudden the individual components of the game are fair among the different man-man matchups, rather than favoring the defensive player due to poor spacing. Poor spacing that a sophomore Cal guard should be trying to prevent whenever possible.

[Joneslab]

It's just that when John Wall played well, you saw it. Couldn't help but see it. The ungodly speed. The assist numbers. The points he could put up. It was easy sometimes to dismiss the turnover issues Wall had because he'd have a 15 and 8 game most every night.

And while John Wall didn't have Cal pushing him, there was the midseason flap where Wall said he wasn't having fun.

Andrew's a way different player. He can have a solid game sometimes and fans still wonder what's wrong. It's because Andrew's good games are more about controlling the game. He's more of a pure point guard--low turnovers, place-setter--who can score.

Needs to score more IMO.

[KevinHall]

Basically Andrew doesn't have the "wow" factor that Wall did. Wall could some pretty extraordinary things but turn the ball over 10 times a game. Andrew for the most part is just steady. No stunning speed or spectacular passes. When he does have a bad game, like the last one, people want to jump on him. But overall he's a good steady point guard. I think he and Teague are very similar.

[DA#23]

Teague was an elite athlete.

I'm saying that UK fans understand good PG play and good ball control, even when the wow factor isn't there.

[Joneslab]

Andrew and Teague are very similar but Andrew has become a guy that you can count on much more this year. That Columbia game and the Louisville game he really hurt the team, but generally he's been good. There are times (Kansas) when he's been incredible.

Basically any point guard you can backpedal off of because he isn't going to hit a lot of outside shots is going to have some issues in the college game. With Teague until the tournament guys would play him about 10 feet off. You see that a lot with Andrew, and then when he drives he's got a wilderness of arms in there contesting his shot.

Wall didn't have that because he'd streak up the floor before they got set. Knight didn't have it because he could kill you from outside. Andrew is a kind of between a lot of these guys: good at a lot of things, great at nothing.

[Joneslab]

Teague was an elite athlete.

I'm saying that UK fans understand good PG play and good ball control, even when the wow factor isn't there.

UK fans also have a habit of reading way too tightly into the details and obsessing over the marginalia.

This is why you can look around on message boards and find threads about the twins' squinting or Terrence Jones quitting the team emotionally after the IU game. You're talking about people who often rewatch games three and four times.

I don't think there's any debate about Andrew generally. He isn't an elite point guard. Nobody would argue otherwise. But some of the things he does are really hard to quantify. There's something to be said for having as few turnovers as he's had in his career. Also something to be said about how he's improved his defensive game this year. There are times when I look out there and Andrew is really getting after it on D. That didn't happen last year.

[DA#23]

It's not a habit of reading into the details when we have a new team each year. Cal's system means swings for the fences, and if you don't think Terrence could have lost the 2012 championship for us in fall of 2011 (why was he out and about then, Cal???), then I don't know what to say.

We've dodged some bullets. We've now sustained some injuries.

When you have an opportunity to have Cal in the prime of his career and at a time when he can hit Roy and K at the back end of theirs, he comes in as the Big Name and the Big Contract, and on day one tells us he isn't here for a decade, then I think all of the sudden reading too tightly into the details becomes a little less insane.

You have to make the most out of these opportunities because there might not be a second chance or because the outcomes can be stifling, like if Terrence Jones had gotten into an altercation resulting in injury, suspension, or dismissal.

[UKBoo]

I understand Will's point about not noticing Andrew when he is playing well. You simply do not notice when he is feeding the horses as much as you do Ulis. Part of that, I think, is because we are used to seeing Andrew lower his head, bow his shoulders and try to muscle into the lane. We simply do not notice him as much when he isn't trying to take the game over on his own. Early this season, when he was running the team and focusing on getting guys the ball in the right spots, I rarely noticed until the game was over. An eight assist two turnover game with eight points is a fantastic day for him, and you will hardly notice.