No kidding. I imagine Camp Cal will show real improvement in the offense. Probably starting with the second game back after some rust in the first. So this is probably excellent scheduling for the team but sure is a long break for us insane fans. Need to see my Cats!
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Please read the next line of that post and give an answer to the question. With the way Cal is recruiting at UK and getting guys drafted, why would we not expect a top 10 player to be a one and done? If you take away those two games in the tournament no one on here is defending Aaron and everyone is saying he is an average player. Also, I would like to know where I have said I am not happy with this season, the twins, or anything else. Just having a discussion on the hype and ratings vs results. Why would we blame Cal? He has no control over the mentality of these kids. Poythress is the perfect example. One of the better athletes in the country and can do what he wants on the court but doesnt have the mentality to crush his opponent. Not everyone has the killer instinct we would hope for. As said above, if you are unhappy with this discussion, you can choose to not be a part of it. Just because we are discussing a player compared to what we thought may have been or could be doesnt mean anyone is unhappy.Comment
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Ah - my favorite subject... I'll say it again - I'm not a big fan of either... I flat out don't like the way they play the game. As Will has stated, Aaron is much better than Andrew and is leading the team in scoring but has also shot 40+ times more than the next guy. He's shooting under 40% and under 30% from the 3pt line... Sorry folks, but if you call that a great shooter, then you need to take your blue-shade glasses off... DO I root for him - heck yeah. I like his shot - it just doesn't go in as much as I would like. Did he have a spectacular NCAA tournament - Heck yeah - it was awesome. For those that think he or Andrew is a long time NBA player - let's not go there because as someone said above, NBA guards will eat these guys alive. Their D league players at best.
As for Andrew - he's worst than Aaron for sure. Similar stats (under 40% in both FGs/3pts) but his turnover to assist ratio is horrible. He's simply not a good PG and as Will stated, Ulis is just a better point guard...
My beef is their game in general. I don't like the wild drives to the basket and just throwing the ball up. They often leave their feet with no where to go. They shoot too much. They are simply not smart players. However, last year, they got hot and looked like they were really ready to step it up. Andrew was getting in the lane and doing some good things, Andrew was hitting shots, but their back to what they were during the early part of last season. I always find myself yelling at the TV to stop shooting the ball and stop playing out of control. The one thing I do like - they are good rebounders. I would like to see one of them post up a smaller guard - like the Cardinals used to do back in the day with guys like Milt Wagner. These kids are big, let them post someone up a time or two.
When it's all said and done - they will be known as solid college basketball players. But, I don't see them doing anything at the next level. Regardless - their a part of this team and for me personally (and I don't like them) - I hope they do well and I will root for them as long as I'm not yelling at them. : )Comment
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Thank you, Ratt. Once again, if Aaron misses that shot against Michigan and we lose to them no one is defending him. I understand he hit some of the more memorable shots for this program in my lifetime, but let's not let those put a shadow on the numbers and body language of the rest of his time here. I love the twins and want them back next year even if that means losing Briscoe, but they are college players that are a dime a dozen. A 6'5 guard that shoots around 30% from 3 and is average when it comes to foot speed playing defense.Comment
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Because he wasn't a 10 top player for college as it turns out. What's so hard to understand about that? You think judges of talent, including Cal, are never wrong?
How one can say they're disappointed in someone in one breath & then say they're not unhappy about the same subject in another escapes me.Comment
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I'm not disappointed in them either. Would I like for Andrew to be John Wall? Sure I would. Does not being John Wall make him a bad point guard? Not at all. I mean, just how many John Walls are there anyway? Doggone few. Look back over the past 50 years and you will remember that UK has had a lot of point guards no better than Andrew and several that were worse. In fact, Andrew would rank well up in the top half of UK point guards. He's not a lightning quick Ulis, but against some types of defenders he is the guy that can power down the lane and score or get to the line......he has done it many times and sometimes that's what is needed and that will happen again at some point this season. Bet on it.
As for Aaron - If you had just one shot to win a game, who on this team would you want taking it? Some guys just have the knack of coming up big when things look bleakest. He can go a whole game without hitting a shot but when you really really need him, he steps up. I'll give my last shot to Aaron every day of the week and twice on Sundays. How fickle some UK fans are. Turning on the very guy who gave us three of the most exciting moments in UK basketball history. Shame!
I'm a Tyler Ulis fan......probably his biggest fan. But being a Ulis fan doesn't mean I have to turn on the point guard who took us where we had no chance to go and his brother who had the balls to take and make the shots that nailed the lid down on three great opponents in a row. Clutter. Clutter. Clutter!
kynutLast edited by kynut; 01-04-2015, 11:38 AM.Comment
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I'm not disappointed in them either. I just think they are what they are. They aren't great players, but they've both shown flashes of greatness. They're sophomores. They absolutely get a bad rap. Some of it is their own fault, as UKBoo said. Some of it is UK fans just stirring stuff.
But if you look at them, they were the starting backcourt on a team that played for the national title as freshmen. They're the starting backcourt on a team that may be one of the three or four best teams Kentucky's ever had this year.
That's not too shabby.Comment
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He didn't miss the shot.
But I disagree with that point.
The first fifteen games of the year last season Aaron was money. Nobody noticed it because people always lump him with Andrew.
He's never been a great outside shooter. He's obviously hit huge shots, but he hasn't been consistent out there. But he's 19. Most guys are inconsistent when they're 19. Those one-and-dones you're talking about are phenoms. There are tons of guys who are top 10, top 15 players who aren't phenoms. I watched Le'Bryan Nash yesterday. I remember when people were debating whether he was better than MKG. He's still at Oklahoma State, and they're awful.
Some of these guys mature at different rates. Some of them never mature. Teague, Lamb, the Harrisons--not everybody has the game to be a star in the NBA, regardless of what the high school hype said about them.Comment
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And one more point about this.
It's hard to judge the worth of the individual players on this team.
We had a debate just like this about how disappointing Karl Towns had been--in a thread started, I believe, by teamchemistry15--just last week.
This has nothing to do with NBA potential but more about how good these guys are as college players. It's difficult to tell how good they really are because we have so many guys playing. On this team, a player can get 7 or 8 points and have a good game. But it looks pretty vanilla.
That's just the nature of having this much depth.
We have some guys who, if you put them on any other team in America, would get the ball on most every possession and would play 35 minutes a game. Aaron is one of those guys. Towns, WCS, Lyles, Ulis--each of those guys would be go-to players on most every other team.Comment
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Well, we keep saying they are not great players. Maybe they aren't. But, they are better than the starters on about 300 other college basketball teams. So, they are certainly in the 90th percentile. I'd have a hard time coming up with many coaches who would not want them on their teams.
I think we have a tendency to downgrade our players if they are not in the top two or three nationally at their position. I mean, let's look at Dakari for example. For starters, you'd have to compare him to Okafor. In that comparison Dakari is not a great player. Yet, in truth, Dakari is undoubtedly in the 90th percentile of all centers. So how great does a guy have to be to be great? In the 99 plus percentile? If that is the case then college basketball only produces 3 or 4 truly great players each year.
What it boils down to to me is that a UK player is only great if he is seen as great by 99.9% of UK fans. That being the case UK has only had a very, very, few truly great players throughout history, and even every single one of them has been disappointing to some of our fans at some point in their careers.
Personally, I'm not very interested in great players. What I am interested in is great teams......a group of solid players whose sum is greater than the parts. We should all be rejoicing in the fact that we have that this year instead of pitting one player against another.
kynutLast edited by kynut; 01-04-2015, 12:10 PM.Comment
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I think teamchemistry's point was just about the hype they had coming out of high school, not necessarily about whether they're great or not.
Andrew was the 5th overall player. Aaron as the 7th. (That's using Rivals' rankings.)
#5 is about where Brandon Knight was. So in that way I agree with his point.
But ironically, the fact that they haven't lived up to their reputations has been good for Kentucky. Really good. It's allowed us to have some stability. If they were the kind of can't-miss, one-and-done players who left after their freshmen seasons, then we'd have a starting backcourt of Ulis and Booker.
And we'd be struggling IMO. Ulis and Booker are excelling because they haven't had to be thrown into the fire the way Aaron and Andrew were last year.
We hated the one-and-done thing. Well, the only way you stay away form that is if you have players who don't live up to the hype.Comment
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The twins remind me of Alex Poythrees his first two years, folks where ready to ship him off because he didn't accelerate the way some of our other one and dones have in the past. Take Terrance Jones for example, all over the board his freshman and sophomore and then went nuts in the NCAA tournament. The twins frustrate the crap out of me but technically speaking, they still have two more years to make things right. Still, as bad as they play at times, i would much rather have them on my team then not have them on my team. What happens when it all finally clicks???Comment
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Yeah Poythress has to be thrown into the mix if we're talking about not living up to the hype.
But it happens with a bunch of guys every year. Those one-and-dones who are drafted in the lottery and who contribute as rookies are freaks. One-in-a-million types of players. A lot of these kids never make it there.
We tend to take a lot of this stuff for granted.Comment
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Thank you for understanding my point. I personally am not disappointed in the twins. Do I wNt them to have more of a killer instinct and be quicker? Sure, but who doesnt? Am I unhappy with their body language? Absolutely I am although it has gotten better. I am only stating that according to the hype, ratings, and expectations coming out of high school neither has been what we expected. That isnt a knock on them because I am happy they came back to school and they are both good college players. It isnt like I am the only one who believes that either. I think everyone here, our staff, scouts, and the twins themselves expected to be in the pros after year one, especially with all the undefeated talk last year. If I have implied that I am personally not happy with the twins it certainly wasnt my intentions.Comment
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