Trying to be realistic about the Barnhart hatred

[justafan]

The issue with that is that it's just one hire.

If Barnhart had just screwed up once, then you could look around at the other things he's done or been involved with--Cal and the basketball and football facilities being at the top of the list--and sort of just say, "You know, he messed up that one time, but he was able to get it back together with his next move."

And there's still time. Stoops could rewrite both his own and Barnhart's legacy.

But it's not looking good.

Whatever. How many screws up has UT, IU, USC made? You're going to exclude ND's $20M screw up with Weis because "it was only once", got it.

Fact is, plenty of AD's at *major* programs have made stupid hires. MB is far from the worst and so far he has made, perhaps, one more than Jurich. If Stoops is failure, then so be it.

Stoops was a great hire, at the time.
BCG was a decent hire, at the time.
Joker, made some sense, at the time.

[surveyor]

Whatever. How many screws up has UT, IU, USC made? You're going to exclude ND's $20M screw up with Weis because "it was only once", got it.

Fact is, plenty of AD's at *major* programs have made stupid hires. MB is far from the worst and so far he has made, perhaps, one more than Jurich. If Stoops is failure, then so be it.

Stoops was a great hire, at the time.
BCG was a decent hire, at the time.
Joker, made some sense, at the time.

Weiss was a great hire, at the time.................

[Joneslab]

Steve Kragthorpe was a great hire at the time.

He'd won 17 games in his previous two years before UofL.

You can't keep going back to the "it looked great at the time" thing when an AD gets four shots to make major hires over a span of nine years and he fails three times.

[surveyor]

Kragthorpe was another of those guys with a brief resume. Hiring a guy with just 4 years HC experience at a mid-major with a 56% winning percentage on the heels of one of the best coaches UofL ever had - that was a poor move.

[Joneslab]

Kragthorpe was another of those guys with a brief resume. Hiring a guy with just 4 years HC experience at a mid-major with a 56% winning percentage on the heels of one of the best coaches UofL ever had - that was a poor move.

By that same token Petrino had no record of success before he took the UofL job.

He followed John L. Smith, who was Petrino before Petrino.

These guys all have to start somewhere.

If I were a UofL fan I'd be more than willing to give Jurich a pass for Steve Kragthorpe. As a UK fan I was willing to give Barnhart a pass for Billy Gillispie, and have said so on this board. I was okay with Joker because I could see the calculus in the move.

But now we're into a situation where it looks like our AD has left the football program in the lurch by making back-to-back poor hires, and that has to give anyone pause when it's becoming clear that we might be in the market for yet another coach very soon. I don't want Barnhart making that call.

[justafan]

Steve Kragthorpe was a great hire at the time.

He'd won 17 games in his previous two years before UofL.

You can't keep going back to the "it looked great at the time" thing when an AD gets four shots to make major hires over a span of nine years and he fails three times.

Correct, and you can't pick and choose which bad hires to ignore. You specifically mentioned Barnhart was in league with BC and Rutgers. I pointed out (just off the top of my head) some huge blunders by ADs, UT, IU, USC - much "bigger" schools than BC and Rutgers.. You choose to ignore those. I choose to ignore your further replies.

You can't keep ignoring everyone else's and think MB is only one of 3 ADs to make bad hires.

Its a crapshoot. That's the point. Does MB deserve to lose his job? I don't know, I don't care, but the whole argument you're making is silly.

[Joneslab]

Correct, and you can't pick and choose which bad hires to ignore. You specifically mentioned Barnhart was in league with BC and Rutgers. I pointed out (just off the top of my head) some huge blunders by ADs, UT, IU, USC - much "bigger" schools than BC and Rutgers.. You choose to ignore those.

I just don't think they apply.

The Tennessee AD lost his job fairly recently, IIRC.

Notre Dame doesn't fit in with Kentucky because of a whole lot of extenuating circumstances. Notre Dame has also gone through two ADs fairly recently. Notre Dame also fell into a tremendous situation in basketball by jumping into the Big East and then the ACC, which was a coup by any measure.

As far as football hires, yes they hired Weiss, but they also hired Brian Kelly--so that's a bit of a wash. Kelly has averaged 9 wins in his six seasons there.

Cal might be a wash for Barnhart as well. Maybe you can put Cal on one side with the facilities and on the other put Joker and Gillispie and Stoops and give Barnhart a pass.

But then you have the fact not only of the hiring itself, but these contracts that Barnhart has worked up. The buyout that he handed Stoops. The contract extension that he inexplicably gave Tubby Smith when it was clear to everyone that the recruiting was falling apart.

I think it's time for him to go. I didn't think so before Stoops. Straw, camel, etc.

[Joneslab]

And USC was mentioned--they've averaged almost 9 wins a year since Pete Carroll left. They also made what I think is going to be a great basketball hire in Andy Enfield last season.

Again: I'm not sure how that even comes close to applying to what's happened at Kentucky with Barnhart.

[KevinHall]

Correct, and you can't pick and choose which bad hires to ignore. You specifically mentioned Barnhart was in league with BC and Rutgers. I pointed out (just off the top of my head) some huge blunders by ADs, UT, IU, USC - much "bigger" schools than BC and Rutgers.. You choose to ignore those. I choose to ignore your further replies.

You can't keep ignoring everyone else's and think MB is only one of 3 ADs to make bad hires.

Its a crapshoot. That's the point. Does MB deserve to lose his job? I don't know, I don't care, but the whole argument you're making is silly.

I'm pretty sure most of those other schools you have mentioned have changed AD's because of, probably, bad coaching hires. If Stoops doesn't work out then Barnhart should join that list IMO.

[Joneslab]

Lynn Swann is USC's AD.

Tennessee's Dave Hart is going to retire soon, but I think all he was responsible for were Butch Jones and Rick Barnes. Two very good hires IMO.

Notre Dame plays in a different sandbox than most people, but basketball-wise what Notre Dame has done under Mike Brey should be a model for many programs. Weiss was a blunder, though, mostly for the crazy money they threw at him. But in terms of a hire "looking great at the time," maybe nobody in recent college sports fit that bill more than Charlie Weiss.

Indiana has a guy named Fred Glass as their AD. He's about as popular as Mitch Barnhart. I do think the Tom Crean hire was better than most people give it credit for being, and they did go to a bowl last year. But Glass is about on Barnhart's level in that he's not going to win any popularity contests in that fanbase.

[Matt Dillon]

As long as it doesn't affect UK, I don't care what happens at other schools. I'm sick and tired of fb mediocrity at UK. At my age (71), I probably don't have that many seasons left to enjoy, and I'd like to see Barnhart, or whomever, get it right for a change.

[catfaninin]

I've always given Barnhart a pass, even with Gillispie. And then even with Joker, because it made sense in theory.

But Stoops, if we keep going down this path--that's just too many mistakes. There is no way we can give him another crack at hiring anyone. Too many chances blown.

Just giving someone chance after chance to make the right hire is sort of a "not learning from your own mistakes" situation. The dirt that's dug up on these guys, and their inability to actually perform, is the AD's responsibility. After Gillispie I pretty much thought Barnhart had been duped by a guy with real issues. But then he got duped again by Joker. And now possibly a third time by Stoops.

The carousel will have to stop at some point.

I base this on nothing other than a feeling I have. But I have always thought that Rich Brooks was probably the main factor in the hiring of Joker.

[KCKUKFan]

Lost in all of this is the fact that Barnhart has signed an extension through 2022, so it's a moot point.

[KCKUKFan]

I do think the Tom Crean hire was better than most people give it credit for being.

No, it wasn't.

Tom Crean has been an utter disappointment at Indiana, and the only thing saving his skin with the fanbase was their win against Kentucky.

The ENTIRE fanbase was ready to ship him out of town halfway through last season.

His results might be fine at a school that doesn't expect better; Indiana expects better, and should deserve more than what he has delivered. Let's not even talk about his creepy demeanor.

[Owllycat]

I see it this way as why hate a person for so many great things they brought to our atheltic department. We sit here focsing on the negitive than we do the positives. Look at all the great coaches he brought to us, and how great they are in making our teams better. Enjoy what he has gave us and not on the flaws.