Really weird season

[boomdaddy]

With the auto extensions built into Stoops contract, it will cost a fortune to fire him. With every 6 win season, he gets another year tacked on. Maybe they should rethink that down the road and not set the bar so low.

[Brasslock]

Despite the win, the game was a disaster. Huh? I'm sorry but that makes no sense to me. The only "disaster" i've seen this year was Miss State. Now that was hurtful. I've seen too many disastrous losses over the years. Every loss to Tennessee is a disaster, for me. A team that wins more than it loses is not a mediocre team. Are we where I hope we will be? No. Gran has called some brilliant games. I know he's messed up some. The fact that he can script a brilliant offensive game plan is something I haven't see very often. (I'm definitely referring to the Louisville game last year.) SC wasn't the only good team we have beaten this year. Missouri is coming on strong and will likely be a bowl team. They can put up some points. We put up more points. I could go on but I doubt if it would change anyone's perspective. Then again, I'm too busy looking forward to another win at Vandy.

[George]

Despite the win, the game was a disaster. Huh? I'm sorry but that makes no sense to me.

If your team's poor performance overshadows the fact that the win was only the second in 30-odd attempts, then that qualifies as a disaster.

[Joneslab]

This current team shouldn't be judged for what other UK teams have done. A lot of this stuff obviously started before these guys were born.

I'm willing to look at every team new. Each year is a different thing. And I'll give Stoops credit for that: he has been able to turn games that Kentucky has traditionally lost into wins.

[Lighthouse]

With the auto extensions built into Stoops contract, it will cost a fortune to fire him. With every 6 win season, he gets another year tacked on. Maybe they should rethink that down the road and not set the bar so low.

I'm certainly not calling anybody out and we all need to remember on our own. Who thought the hiring of Stoops was not a great hire in the beginning? I thought is was a great hire, and with the way he hit the ground running on the recruiting trail, most of us did too. So, how do you know the bar was set low when a hire is made?

[George]

This current team shouldn't be judged for what other UK teams have done. A lot of this stuff obviously started before these guys were born.

I'm willing to look at every team new. Each year is a different thing. And I'll give Stoops credit for that: he has been able to turn games that Kentucky has traditionally lost into wins.

Doesn't this sort of contradict the entire notion of keeping track of win/loss streaks? If we didn't judge current teams based on those of the past, then why would we ever acknowledge the fact that we haven't beaten Florida in 30something years, or that we've only beaten UT twice since '84? It's even more difficult to separate this team from those of the past when, despite their improvements, they still leave us feeling a similar way.

The entire identity of the UK fanbase is predicated upon the team's history. We can't just hit the RESET button after every season.

[Joneslab]

The entire identity of the UK fanbase is predicated upon the team's history. We can't just hit the RESET button after every season.

Why can't you?

That's your own personal choice.

The truth is that a lot of UK fans talk about the past because it's part of the running joke that is UK football. It's probably the same culture of misery that Cleveland Browns fans and Bengals fans get into: it's like this shared mentality of "Here we go again." The misery is what unites is.

I've done that before myself, but I can also recognize when a coach comes in and does it a little differently. Mumme did at first, Brooks did, and Stoops has shown some flashes.

I'm not saying anoint Stoops as the next Jimmy Johnson or anything, but the guy has done some things that don't really fit in to what we usually see as UK fans.

[George]

Why can't you?

That's your own personal choice.

No, it isn't. The failures of the previous team and staff have a direct impact on the next team's success. When we look hapless, good players tend to shy away from the program. Better coaches steer clear. Fans lose interest. When we don't improve at the rate predicted, expected, or hoped for by the administration that chose to sink big money into the program, that money won't be there the next time the staff submits a PO.

We're seeing it right at this very moment: in year five, when we were supposed to be better than ever, we look - as you've said more than once - mediocre, at best. I agree that eight wins will change the perception and rekindle fan interest, but this team's performance has either scared off, bored, or disgusted a good chunk of the fanbase. Fail to win them back by season's end, and what's fan turnout going to look like next year? What's that do to ticket sales? To recruiting?

It's all connected. You don't get to ignore all those factors at the beginning of every season. Can't always say, "this year's gonna be different" when data suggests otherwise.

[boomdaddy]

I'm certainly not calling anybody out and we all need to remember on our own. Who thought the hiring of Stoops was not a great hire in the beginning? I thought is was a great hire, and with the way he hit the ground running on the recruiting trail, most of us did too. So, how do you know the bar was set low when a hire is made?

I thought Stoops was a good hire, getting away from offense and choosing one with a defensive background. Yes, Stoops and staff have improved the program. Here is the big "but". After the upgrade in facilities and UK paying to keep most of the assistants from leaving, I expected more in year 5. It doesn't mean I am rational to think so, but I do expect more. Stoops has taken longer than I had hoped to go to his first bowl ad this season they have looked anything but polished. If they manage to eek out two more wins and play decent in the bowl game, I will be back in his corner. I am still not happy about him and the punter situation or playing a banged up QB. Yes, we can all say there is no capable back up at the QB spot. But, who's fault is that? I don't hate Stoops. I just want to see a better team on the field.

Regarding setting the bar low, I was referring to giving automatic extensions for getting to 6 wins, not settling for Stoops when he was hired.. If or when UK has to search for another coach, I will expect better than a coordinator, because UK now has put money into the program and they aren't just a basketball U.

[Joneslab]

No, it isn't. The failures of the previous team and staff have a direct impact on the next team's success.

I guess this is why Calipari was so hamstrung by the Billy G. era that he went right out there and lost all those games his first year.

I get what you're saying, but I think this is what Stoops is doing. It's why the W/L record is so important. It's called a culture of winning.

You can't start that culture without baby steps. Not at a place like Kentucky. What he's started to do is take games that we've traditionally lost and flip them.

That's a start. Not sure if he can keep it going, but an 8-win season would be a hellacious start.

Because I've always been of the mind that 8 is about as good as Kentucky is ever going to do unless we hit the recruiting lottery and pull in a couple of freakazoids or something like that.

[George]

I guess this is why Calipari was so hamstrung by the Billy G. era that he went right out there and lost all those games his first year.

I get what you're saying, but I think this is what Stoops is doing. It's why the W/L record is so important. It's called a culture of winning.

You can't start that culture without baby steps. Not at a place like Kentucky. What he's started to do is take games that we've traditionally lost and flip them.

That's a start. Not sure if he can keep it going, but an 8-win season would be a hellacious start.

Because I've always been of the mind that 8 is about as good as Kentucky is ever going to do unless we hit the recruiting lottery and pull in a couple of freakazoids or something like that.

We've also discussed in the past how different basketball and football are, given, among other things, that a single basketball player can completely course-correct a program. Not so in football; it's apples-and-oranges.

Otherwise, I think we've managed to work toward an agreement. I can buy everything else you've said here.

[boomdaddy]

Some coaches just turn things around quicker and win, while others move at a slower pace. The previous coach of Vandy had them winning quick and he also had Penn State winning quick. I am not comparing UK to Penn St, but UK is comparable to Vandy.

[Lighthouse]

I thought Stoops was a good hire, getting away from offense and choosing one with a defensive background. Yes, Stoops and staff have improved the program. Here is the big "but". After the upgrade in facilities and UK paying to keep most of the assistants from leaving, I expected more in year 5. It doesn't mean I am rational to think so, but I do expect more. Stoops has taken longer than I had hoped to go to his first bowl ad this season they have looked anything but polished. If they manage to eek out two more wins and play decent in the bowl game, I will be back in his corner. I am still not happy about him and the punter situation or playing a banged up QB. Yes, we can all say there is no capable back up at the QB spot. But, who's fault is that? I don't hate Stoops. I just want to see a better team on the field.

Regarding setting the bar low, I was referring to giving automatic extensions for getting to 6 wins, not settling for Stoops when he was hired.. If or when UK has to search for another coach, I will expect better than a coordinator, because UK now has put money into the program and they aren't just a basketball U.

Makes sense, and we mostly agree.

[Spiritof96]

No one needs your approval, John. Nor is anyone hating. We come here, we spend time here, and we carefully select our words here not because we hate, but because we’re fans. Some of us - the group you guys so subtlety refer to throughout this thread - are just sick of being told that we have a great team, when the evidence clearly suggests otherwise.

We aren’t stupid. We don’t need someone to explain the game to us. It’s easy to see that UK is a handful of plays away from being 3-6 instead of 6-3. Also easy to see that we’ve improved in minuscule amounts over five years in certain areas of the game. It’s also clear that our head coach has the temperament of a toddler. That’s...unbecoming, and probably unhelpful in all areas of the game.

It’s the team’s fault - not ours - that we doubt UK’s chances going into virtually every game. I can’t for the life of me figure out why some of you think I, or KC, or any other critical fan wants to come around just to badmouth the team. But if they’re playing like crap and leaving receivers wide open at critical times and coming *THIS CLOSE* to losing to one of the worst Vol teams in recorded history, then harsh criticism is what they deserve.

This is about as unfair a post as I have seen... Who has said this team is "great"?

For starters, if you don't like CMS temperament, fine; but take a look around at college football coaches personalities and how many of them don't have some MAJOR combative idiosyncrasies. Stoops is par for the course in his field.

You say we are a "handful of plays from being 3-6". True. We are also a handful of plays from being 9-1. If it isn't legitimate to celebrate the latter then it isn't legitimate to offer criticism of the former. We are 7-3 and that means we are 7-3.

As far as "improving a minuscule amount over the last 5 years"... I'm sorry, but... It's so wrong I can't even come up with words to describe it's wrongness.

Stoops took over a team that would have been 500 in the MAC. We were a joke. A TOTAL JOKE! We have seen a sea change in on field talent and execution.

In my view, those that are dissatisfied with the progress or the rate of progress are grossly underestimating how difficult it is to build a winning program in this league and change our tainted brand. That we have a sophomore that is the fastest to 2000 yards and is now the CAREER LEADER in TD's here is exhibit A in making the case for how bad our program has been and how far Stoops has brought it. We are CLEARLY on the right track with steadily improving win totals and recruiting classes. (Which btw still won't be top 8 in the league) If a fan can't be happy about being as good as we have been since before Bill Curry they aren't EVER going to be happy as a UK football fan.

None of this means Stoops is a hall of fame coach or that this years Cats are world beaters, but he is FAR from terrible, he is a damn sight better than most of the coaches in this league and he IS DOING what we brought him here to do. Build a winning football team, the right way, that we can be proud of. I am proud of a 7-3 team that lost two of three by one score.

As for Will's "we only have one good win"... wrong! We have 7 good wins. ALL WINS ARE GOOD, RARE, and should be appreciated. You can say we havn't beaten anyone were weren't supposed to beat, but think about that, we were SUPPOSED to win all of our games so far save Miss St! THAT"S PROGRESS!!!

I'm not content with the notion that this is ALL we will ever be, but I am certainly content with where we are currently in the context of our growth as a program.

[Catsrock]

Weird season continues...we're back on an up-tick with one of our best 2 performances of the season (along with S. Car). And the drubbing by Miss St. Is looking less embarrassing at the moment as they're beating Bama late. But still--some of us were berated for complaining about struggling with EKU because "they have transfers/they're pretty strong." They are a 3-7 OVC team. Florida is 3-6 because we and UT gift-wrapped them 2 games--they should be 1-8! Eastern Michigan game was brutal.

But hope springs eternal...survive a ticked-off UGA game and slow down Lamar to beat UL and we should all be pleased. 8-4 would be progress no matter how u slice it even though 10-2 could have been the way this schedule has played out. The year we actually win every game we have a shot in is the year we have truly arrived I suppose.