Really weird season

[Joneslab]

I also think people underestimate our competition.

You mean the competition that's mostly going to fire its head coaches after the season?

We have one decent win: South Carolina. We've looked shaky in most every win we have.

I think people see this team as what it exactly is: mediocre. Just a mediocre team that really does nothing that well.

I don't see it as "hating" to say that. It's an observation of what's going on. Why come to message boards if we're so sensitive about honest takes?

Nobody's personally bashing the players. Nobody is making gratuitous runs at anybody. It's just an observation.

If you're too sensitive you can't handle that then these places are probably not for you.

With all this said, if they can get this done and win 8 games then nobody should dwell on the weak schedule. You can only beat who's in front of you and any Kentucky coach should get credit for 8. That's getting up into rarefied air.

[Joneslab]

I think this is a great post. The incessant complaining about the play calling is as ridiculous as anything I have ever saw. To the point it's comical as the numbers say the exact opposite of what all the complainers do.

Kentucky fans are always overly obsessed with the playcalling and the offensive coordinator.

I tend to dislike Stoops' careful style at times, both offensively and defensively. Offensively this particularly starts to come out when we're working with leads. But that same careful style has won us a couple of games too, so you have to take the good with the bad.

It's not like he's working with an offense full of five-star studs.

So I get it on the surface. Obvious to see why they do it. At times he defaults to careful though when the game situation might not call for it.

[catfaninin]

I don't know why I did it, but I read that UTK game thread and I do not want to watch a game with many of the people that participated in it.

I'm glad I did, so I can consider the source of the Vandy predictions. If I hadn't, I'd be posting about how some of them are completely awful. Now I know, there are haters here, and haters hate.

For sure. That game thread was ridiculous. With all the stupidity thrown around there I'm glad those people aren't coaching or 0-9 would be quite likely.

[catfaninin]

Kentucky fans are always overly obsessed with the playcalling and the offensive coordinator.

I tend to dislike Stoops' careful style at times, both offensively and defensively. Offensively this particularly starts to come out when we're working with leads. But that same careful style has won us a couple of games too, so you have to take the good with the bad.

It's not like he's working with an offense full of five-star studs.

So I get it on the surface. Obvious to see why they do it. At times he defaults to careful though when the game situation might not call for it.

But the facts don't say that. In the Ole Miss game as the same "throw the ball, play to win" was said over and over there were more passes than runs. The numbers are posted here on another thread somewhere but I don't have the time to go find them.

A good coach does what his team does best. Anyone who would argue having Johnson throw 50 times a game and not give the ball to Snell is how this team should play is just nuts.

Johnson has played great. Because of the running game. He is not a QB that's going to win games by himself. But if the run game allows it then he is very good.

[Joneslab]

I don't think they react to momentum in the best way all the time.

One thing fans say a lot that I agree with: "Why don't we put the pedal down and blow teams out?"

The reason? It's obvious: as soon as we get a lead they want to try and start drawing the string out.

You can understand this against good teams, because good teams will stay with you. But we've seen this against teams like EKU. We've seen it virtually every week.

It's very much a playing not to lose philosophy, and it isn't just about Johnson throwing the ball. It's in those stats like they mentioned last week about us being last in the SEC in pass rushes. It's in the way the secondary plays.

It's super conservative. When the stadium is rocking and the game is there for you to blow open, I think you should do everything in your power to blow it open. These guys always have one eye on the clock.

[George]

Yes we will.

How can somebody be a hater and fan? I guess you can be, but that doesn't mean I have to approve of it and I can't try shaming into what I think the norm should be. I guess you can try shaming me for shaming them, but whatever. I'm just trying to help out Vince.

I also think people underestimate our competition. As if they aren't trying, as if they don't have good recruiting.

No one needs your approval, John. Nor is anyone hating. We come here, we spend time here, and we carefully select our words here not because we hate, but because we’re fans. Some of us - the group you guys so subtlety refer to throughout this thread - are just sick of being told that we have a great team, when the evidence clearly suggests otherwise.

We aren’t stupid. We don’t need someone to explain the game to us. It’s easy to see that UK is a handful of plays away from being 3-6 instead of 6-3. Also easy to see that we’ve improved in minuscule amounts over five years in certain areas of the game. It’s also clear that our head coach has the temperament of a toddler. That’s...unbecoming, and probably unhelpful in all areas of the game.

It’s the team’s fault - not ours - that we doubt UK’s chances going into virtually every game. I can’t for the life of me figure out why some of you think I, or KC, or any other critical fan wants to come around just to badmouth the team. But if they’re playing like crap and leaving receivers wide open at critical times and coming *THIS CLOSE* to losing to one of the worst Vol teams in recorded history, then harsh criticism is what they deserve.

[Joneslab]

No team should ever take harsh criticism after they win unless they were just stacked at every position and playing a mid-major.

Because as we all know, we could line Tennessee up against us and look at recruiting rankings and they should win by a few touchdowns. Raw talent-wise we're still looking up.

So if you're doling out harsh criticism after wins, then I won't go there. That's just refusing to enjoy something that should be enjoyable.

But the game threads are different. Those places are created in real time and you've got a lot of guys reacting to individual plays rather than the entire game.

This has been the case forever. If you don't understand what the game threads are then simply don't click on the links.

I tend to think the game threads are the most interesting parts of these forums, but you have to take so much of what's happening in them with context.

[George]

No team should ever take harsh criticism after they win unless they were just stacked at every position and playing a mid-major.

Because as we all know, we could line Tennessee up against us and look at recruiting rankings and they should win by a few touchdowns. Raw talent-wise we're still looking up.

But the game threads are different. Those places are created in real time and you've got a lot of guys reacting to individual plays rather than the entire game.

This has been the case forever. If you don't understand what the game threads are then simply don't click on the links.

I tend to think the game threads are the most interesting parts of these forums, but you have to take so much of what's happening in them with context.

Probably won't come as a surprise, but I disagree. When a team does everything in its power to give the game away, it deserves harsh criticism. Thank God Johnson's tough as nails and Snell's Snell, because despite the win, that UT game was an absolute disaster.

I don't think you can separate a game like that from the context of the season, either. Were that an anomaly in an otherwise positive series of convincing wins, then fine. Whatever. Chalk it up to anything. But when it's the culmination of weeks of suspicion and concern, then yes, the criticism is justified.

[Joneslab]

Probably won't come as a surprise, but I disagree. When a team does everything in its power to give the game away, it deserves harsh criticism. Thank God Johnson's tough as nails and Snell's Snell, because despite the win, that UT game was an absolute disaster.

This is the kind of thing that irks us about crazzed.

If they're winning then I don't care how they do it. The problem with this team is that the line between winning and losing is so razor thin that they're always toeing it. And I would imagine the same will happen today.

But if they play a mediocre Vandy team today to a 24-21 win, and if somebody is sitting there after the game saying, "God, we're awful," and we're sitting at 7-3, then that's not allowing something to be fun actually be fun.

This isn't life and death. It's not our jobs. We're just trying to have a good time with it. Maybe if we start reeling in massive recruiting classes we can get peeved about sluggish performances; we're not there yet. Some of these teams have more five-stars on them currently than Kentucky has ever signed in the history of our program.

[George]

This is the kind of thing that irks us about crazzed.

If they're winning then I don't care how they do it. The problem with this team is that the line between winning and losing is so razor thin that they're always toeing it. And I would imagine the same will happen today.

But if they play a mediocre Vandy team today to a 24-21 win, and if somebody is sitting there after the game saying, "God, we're awful," and we're sitting at 7-3, then that's not allowing something to be fun actually be fun.

This isn't life and death. It's not our jobs. We're just trying to have a good time with it. Maybe if we start reeling in massive recruiting classes we can get peeved about sluggish performances; we're not there yet. Some of these teams have more five-stars on them currently than Kentucky has ever signed in the history of our program.

But I do. And I know others do, too. You've said yourself that few, if any, of this season's wins have inspired confidence in this team. At the end of the day, be it football, basketball, or any other sport, the goal is post-season success. If you can't get out there and win your bowl game, then it's tough to feel like it's been a truly successful season. Convincing wins inspire confidence in our post-season chances. If that isn't the goal, then why are we playing?

It's no one's fault but the team's if the wins aren't fun. I'm sorry, but I can't sit here and say that anything about the UT game was fun. It was nerve-wracking and frustrating and confusing. None of that is fun, despite the win.

[Joneslab]

But I do. And I know others do, too. You've said yourself that few, if any, of this season's wins have inspired confidence in this team. At the end of the day, be it football, basketball, or any other sport, the goal is post-season success. If you can't get out there and win your bowl game, then it's tough to feel like it's been a truly successful season. Convincing wins inspire confidence in our post-season chances. If that isn't the goal, then why are we playing?

I wouldn't say I have confidence in them necessarily, but that's a far different thing than ripping them after they win.

You don't have to think your team is awesome to get behind them and feel like they've accomplished something after wins. I can think of a few Kentucky b'ball teams over the years that I didn't think were great and that I feared watching, and yet they somehow kept winning.

Some teams' whole MO is playing things super close to the vest, working the hell out of the clock, and then getting the game so that they can steal it at the very end. This is what Stoops and his staff have been doing for two years now, and they have a few W's to show for it.

Problem is you're always flirting with disaster when you play that way, and that's my main criticism.

[George]

I wouldn't say I have confidence in them necessarily, but that's a far different thing than ripping them after they win.

You don't have to think your team is awesome to get behind them and feel like they've accomplished something after wins. I can think of a few Kentucky b'ball teams over the years that I didn't think were great and that I feared watching, and yet they somehow kept winning.

Some teams' whole MO is playing things super close to the vest, working the hell out of the clock, and then getting the game so that they can steal it at the very end. This is what Stoops and his staff have been doing for two years now, and they have a few W's to show for it.

Problem is you're always flirting with disaster when you play that way, and that's my main criticism.

I guess my biggest problem is that I'm sick of Stoops and John and anyone else trying to convince me that this team is better than it is. Yes, it's fantastic that we're at six wins already. Yes, I can clearly see that we're a better program than we were a few years ago.

But we still aren't a good team.

And I'll say this again: Stoops' penchant for whining about fan criticism is about as off-putting as it gets. He practically begs for more by doing that.

[Joneslab]

The only thing that tells you whether they're good or not is wins and losses.

It could go either way. If they end up at 6-6 then they were absolutely not a good team.

If they're 7-5, I'd say that's just decent. Indicative of an inconsistent team benefiting from a lax schedule.

Eight wins though is a different thing. Huge gap between 7 and 8, because 8 will mean that you've got some things to show for your effort: win against Tennessee, win against South Carolina on the road, two wins in a row against Louisville. And a very good bowl.

If you're criticizing that then I'm not sure what to say. But we may not get there.

[Lighthouse]

I like and understand what Will is saying, because it's true. But, I also like and understand what DVZ is saying, because that's true also. The thing that frustrates me about the game threads is how fast folks post about how terrible our team is, or fire a coach, as soon as something doesn't work or we make a bad play. It's almost like some are already preparing what they will post about today's game as soon as we have to punt or Vandy scores.

We've all seen how our play calling changes when we get a lead, and it may happen again today. To me, where that hurts us the most is in recruiting. If we're talking to a good RB recruit, he will like how we grind, but if we're recruiting a TE or WR, the coaches will have a hard time explaining why we don't use them at crucial times, if at all.

[Blue Heaven]

I have never been on the "Fire Stoops and Gran" bandwagon, but I will stand by things I have said this season. Sure they have done good things. They have also stunk up the field with play calling and clock management.
Like Lighthouse said, I feel both of what Will and DVZ said. Just don't get your panties in a twist when someone elses opinion doesn't line up with yours.