Jayson Tatum

[KevinHall]

Bottom line is that Coach K has five national titles to one for Cal. He's still the best and probably will be until he retires. With Coach K buying into the one and done game and being successful at it I expect him to win another title or two before he finally calls it quits.

[teamchemistry15]

Bottom line is that Coach K has five national titles to one for Cal. He's still the best and probably will be until he retires. With Coach K buying into the one and done game and being successful at it I expect him to win another title or two before he finally calls it quits.

Agreed that if we are looking at the entire career it is hands down Coach K. I was looking at since Cal got to UK.

[Joneslab]

It's been said before, and it's being said now by yahoos on KSR (none of which is me, BTW), but that loss to Wisconsin will hurt Cal until he either wins another, or until Duke stumbles with a load of talent that attracts as much attention.

That loss, despite how much we may want to praise Wisconsin, moreover the WAY it was lost, was damaging.

UK should have won last year. They were the best team.

Even with the draft evidence, I think the title weighs more.

I agree. I actually think before this past season Cal was ahead of Coach K if you looked at just Cal's time at UK. Cal had the NIT but K had the embarrassing NCAA losses. And with an undefeated season Cal obviously not only overtakes K but puts himself in the conversation as one of the greatest ever.

Now with this latest title K has to be considered maybe the greatest. I kind of even think he's ahead of Wooden because of the scholarship limits coaches have to work under now.

Cal is great for this program, though, and when you get into only using national titles as the only barometer for a coach you dismiss some of the things Cal does--the media stuff, the manifestos, the salesmanship--that are far better and more clever than anybody who's ever coached. And those things matter. We kind of take them for granted.

[KevinHall]

Agreed that if we are looking at the entire career it is hands down Coach K. I was looking at since Cal got to UK.

Coach K has two championships to Cal's one during Cal's time at UK. I think any way you divide it up Coach K is better. He keeps proving it year after year.

[teamchemistry15]

Coach K has two championships to Cal's one during Cal's time at UK. I think any way you divide it up Coach K is better. He keeps proving it year after year.

How does he keep proving it year after year? He has two titles, Cal has one. Cal also has three other FFs and another national title game. What else does K have in the same time frame? Cal just finished his 6th season here. We are even with Duke at 3-3 as far as who has had the better season. Cal has had six straight number 1 classes and has more wins in the last six years, more tournament wins, and certainly less embarrassing losses. He has put more players in the NBA and had three number one overall picks. No other school has done that. If you want to say Cal has under performed by only having one title I certainly wouldn't disagree but I don't understand how anyone can say K is "clearly the best in the business" or that he "proves it year after year." The only thing K has done better in the last six seasons is winning one more title. I know that is why you play the game, but in no other category is he ahead of Cal since he has been at UK.

All that being said, I would certainly take the Xs and Os from K over Cal. But the numbers, other than national title, all point to Cal being the more successful coach.

[Joneslab]

The national title is a big deal.

There's a weight in college basketball so that the final six games, and particularly the two games in the Final Four, are much heavier than anything that comes before.

I actually think Calipari's March success has been very (very) good. To not have a single embarrassing early loss in five tries is fairly incredible. However, as we all know he's had the two pretty big flame-outs in '10 and last year. Coach K didn't have as good of a team in either of those years and won titles. In 2010 I actually think Duke was significantly worse than Kentucky; last year it was much closer but what happened was that Duke kept improving as the year went along. (There have been some other seasons recently where Duke has regressed pretty significantly.)

But it's close if you look at this six-year run. Clearly if you're trying to assemble the best in the business over these six years you start with K and Cal and then there's a significant drop down to the number three guy (Self or Pitino).

[JFCats22]

Here is a breakdown I put together. If you care about NBA draft picks (I don't) then Cal is way ahead of K. Taking into account the weakness of the SEC I am not sure how valuable the SEC titles are when comparing to Duke/ACC.

I guess, for me (and a lot of others) it seems, the 2 titles for K is worth a lot more than the other categories. Also, I love how everyone makes fun of Duke's early NCAA exits but choose to ignore Cal/UK's NIT appearance.

I still say K is #1 with Cal a solid #2 and then a handful of other behind him.

[Joneslab]

The draft picks shouldn't be factored in at all when trying to ascertain a coach's worth, but obviously the draft picks are directly tied to how successful that coach is.

This is why the old adage "You don't win titles based on recruiting rankings" is a little misleading. You don't win titles on recruiting...but without recruiting nobody ever accomplishes anything.

This is why Cal's trumpeting of first round picks is part of why we win. You can't take one away and have the other. Both K and Cal are alike in this way in that they have been able to isolate, scout, get, and for the most part coach up great basketball players.

Kentucky had a freaky team last year, but let's go back to last summer when people were talking about how freaky Duke was as well. We were tied in McDonald's All-Americans. Cal underachieved by one game; Coach K did what a lot of people expected that team to do.

The real "coaching" comes in when a guy takes a team that isn't supposed to be there. Coach K had one of the best runs in modern history with that 2010 team; that team essentially had three high-level players. A lot of people forget how good the run Kentucky made in 2011 was, when that team had six players who could play at a high level. Both those guys can coach, but to really field elite teams they need horses.

[KevinHall]

How does he keep proving it year after year? He has two titles, Cal has one. Cal also has three other FFs and another national title game. What else does K have in the same time frame? Cal just finished his 6th season here. We are even with Duke at 3-3 as far as who has had the better season. Cal has had six straight number 1 classes and has more wins in the last six years, more tournament wins, and certainly less embarrassing losses. He has put more players in the NBA and had three number one overall picks. No other school has done that. If you want to say Cal has under performed by only having one title I certainly wouldn't disagree but I don't understand how anyone can say K is "clearly the best in the business" or that he "proves it year after year." The only thing K has done better in the last six seasons is winning one more title. I know that is why you play the game, but in no other category is he ahead of Cal since he has been at UK.

All that being said, I would certainly take the Xs and Os from K over Cal. But the numbers, other than national title, all point to Cal being the more successful coach.

I realy don't see how anyone could say that. But to each his own.

I care about national titles. Not recruiting titles. You would hope recruiting titles lead to national titles but Cal has proven they don't. Unfortunantely Coch K leds him in national titles. I hope Cal can overtake him because that would some run if he did.

[teamchemistry15]

Here is a breakdown I put together. If you care about NBA draft picks (I don't) then Cal is way ahead of K. Taking into account the weakness of the SEC I am not sure how valuable the SEC titles are when comparing to Duke/ACC.

I guess, for me (and a lot of others) it seems, the 2 titles for K is worth a lot more than the other categories. Also, I love how everyone makes fun of Duke's early NCAA exits but choose to ignore Cal/UK's NIT appearance.

I still say K is #1 with Cal a solid #2 and then a handful of other behind him.

No doubt him having the extra title is big. But in just about every other category Cal is statistically better. You jump to negativity when UK misses out on a top player. You throw that jab that Coach K is clearly the best in the business and quite frankly, he isn't. On an overall career no doubt he is. But since Cal has been at UK the only thing clear is that it is them two neck and neck and then everyone else.

[teamchemistry15]

I realy don't see how anyone could say that. But to each his own.

I care about national titles. Not recruiting titles. You would hope recruiting titles lead to national titles but Cal has proven they don't. Unfortunantely Coch K leds him in national titles. I hope Cal can overtake him because that would some run if he did.

You don't really see how anyone could say what? I said a lot so I am sure what you are referring to!

The reason I mentioned recruiting is because this entire discussion is on the recruiting part of the board in a thread about a recruit. That recruit choosing Duke made someone say that K is clearly the best in the business because he got a player and Cal didn't. Statistics show otherwise.

[JFCats22]

No doubt him having the extra title is big. But in just about every other category Cal is statistically better. You jump to negativity when UK misses out on a top player. You throw that jab that Coach K is clearly the best in the business and quite frankly, he isn't. On an overall career no doubt he is. But since Cal has been at UK the only thing clear is that it is them two neck and neck and then everyone else.

I disagree...I think if you polled college basketball fans about who the best college coach is I think Coach K would probably get 70%+ of the vote.

Not a shot at Cal, he has been magnificent at UK. I just think K is better than him and I think most agree.

[teamchemistry15]

I disagree...I think if you polled college basketball fans about who the best college coach is I think Coach K would probably get 70%+ of the vote.

Not a shot at Cal, he has been magnificent at UK. I just think K is better than him and I think most agree.

Again, Coach K is the better coach when it comes to Xs and Os. There is no doubt about that. But when it comes to the numbers of wins, winning percentage, tournament success, yada yada yada, they are neck and neck the last six years. If you put up the two teams resumes for the last six years and left the coaches names blank, that vote would be much closer if the question was who has had the more successful six year stretch.

[teamchemistry15]

I realy don't see how anyone could say that. But to each his own.

I care about national titles. Not recruiting titles. You would hope recruiting titles lead to national titles but Cal has proven they don't. Unfortunantely Coch K leds him in national titles. I hope Cal can overtake him because that would some run if he did.

I dont buy the whole only care about national titles talk from you or any other fan. If that was the case, then I am assuming you have zero apparel or merchandise reflecting any Final Four appearance, undefeated regular season, conference championship, etc. There isnt one person in this world (with the exception of Crazed) who looks at every season as a bust unless they win the title. That is a ridiculous idea and only setting yourself up for failure because no program is statistically successful at that even one in ten years. Saying that sounds good and makes us sound like we only care about winning it all, but realistically there are banners and trophies out there from final four appearances and SEC titles. Looking at the seasons Cal has had here:

The Wall team under achieved. No doubt about it. That team was way too talented to flame out like they did. I will give you a bust on that season.

The Knight team was one of the most exciting seasons I have ever witnessed as a sports fan. No one expected a final four run out of them. In no way, shape, or form can you consider that season a bust or say you dont care about it.

The following year was the title.

Then we have Harrow. Oh boy. That season was a little bit of everything. Between Nerlens getting inured and Poythress not being what we all expected to Harrow simply not being able to handle it here, that season was flat awful.

In 2014 we had a high school AA team with WCS. I still say if WCS doesnt get injured we win it that year. With the way that season went you cant call the tournament a bust at all. You can say we didnt live up to expectations, but that was mostly the fans being crazy and putting 40-0 on a bunch of 18 year old kids with no college experience.

Last year can be considered the best team and season to not end in a title. We might not ever see that again. An undefeated regular season, conference title, and final four. I can say that it is definitely disappointing the way it ended, but it was still a successful year.

So, are you telling me that the only seasons you care about in Kentucky basketball history are 48, 49, 51, 58, 78, 96, 98, and 12? That every other season in the history of our program was a bust or a waste because we didnt win the title and none of the other seasons that ended with conference titles or final fours matter?

[KevinHall]

I dont buy the whole only care about national titles talk from you or any other fan. If that was the case, then I am assuming you have zero apparel or merchandise reflecting any Final Four appearance, undefeated regular season, conference championship, etc. There isnt one person in this world (with the exception of Crazed) who looks at every season as a bust unless they win the title. That is a ridiculous idea and only setting yourself up for failure because no program is statistically successful at that even one in ten years. Saying that sounds good and makes us sound like we only care about winning it all, but realistically there are banners and trophies out there from final four appearances and SEC titles. Looking at the seasons Cal has had here:

The Wall team under achieved. No doubt about it. That team was way too talented to flame out like they did. I will give you a bust on that season.

The Knight team was one of the most exciting seasons I have ever witnessed as a sports fan. No one expected a final four run out of them. In no way, shape, or form can you consider that season a bust or say you dont care about it.

The following year was the title.

Then we have Harrow. Oh boy. That season was a little bit of everything. Between Nerlens getting inured and Poythress not being what we all expected to Harrow simply not being able to handle it here, that season was flat awful.

In 2014 we had a high school AA team with WCS. I still say if WCS doesnt get injured we win it that year. With the way that season went you cant call the tournament a bust at all. You can say we didnt live up to expectations, but that was mostly the fans being crazy and putting 40-0 on a bunch of 18 year old kids with no college experience.

Last year can be considered the best team and season to not end in a title. We might not ever see that again. An undefeated regular season, conference title, and final four. I can say that it is definitely disappointing the way it ended, but it was still a successful year.

So, are you telling me that the only seasons you care about in Kentucky basketball history are 48, 49, 51, 58, 78, 96, 98, and 12? That every other season in the history of our program was a bust or a waste because we didnt win the title and none of the other seasons that ended with conference titles or final fours matter?

No I don't have any apparel or other merchandise reflecting an undefeated regular season,SEC chamionship or anything else from last season. I save that stuff for championships. I bought a ton of it after 2012. It was a great season but ended very poorly. That was just the breaks of the tournament. I care about all seasons of UK basketball. I have over 800 games on DVD from the past . That should show something about my fandom. But I can say another coach is better than our coach and still be a fan. Some people quite apparently cannot do that.