UCLA vs. Kentucky: Game Thread

[George]

I know Bam has a strong body and a motor that's always running, but he got schooled today, and his weakness was exposed. He doesn't play as strong as he looks. I think he will learn to play stronger but he has a way to go. We, as well as several coaches, saw what it will take to beat us. Lock down the inside, and let us shoot. Personally I don't think UCLA played D a whole lot better than we did, but they did shut off the paint.

Agreed. That's more or less been the recipe to beat us for the last...how many years now?

That's why I've been harping on our need for shooters.

[Joneslab]

Agreed. That's more or less been the recipe to beat us for the last...how many years now?

That's why I've been harping on our need for shooters.

Definitely wasn't the case last year with Murray and Ulis.

Wasn't the case the year before that either with Booker and those guys.

Wasn't the case with Knight and Lamb. Or obviously in 2012.

Only time we've really struggled shooting were in '09, the bad team, and this year...but I think the verdict is still out on this team. They were 33% from three today. That's not terrible and should be good enough with our weapons elsewhere to win.

97 points.

[Joneslab]

"Skill deficits" and "complimentary" aren't at all the same thing. It sounds more and more like you're saying a successful team must have some measure of every major skill, but there's decades' worth of evidence that that isn't true. Not every championship team had it all.

Both Villanova and North Carolina were dismissed at times last year because they couldn't shoot the three.

Villanova heated up in the tournament, but Carolina shot 32.7% on the year. That's almost identical to where we are now.

[George]

Definitely wasn't the case last year with Murray and Ulis.

Wasn't the case the year before that either with Booker and those guys.

Wasn't the case with Knight and Lamb. Or obviously in 2012.

Only time we've really struggled shooting were in '09, the bad team, and this year...but I think the verdict is still out on this team. They were 33% from three today. That's not terrible and should be good enough with our weapons elsewhere to win.

97 points.

I think you're forgetting the hundreds of post-game conversations we've had on this very board that have left us saying, "Pack it in and make us shoot."

That's been a common refrain for years. Not saying we never figure it out, but I know I'm not making that up, either. You've said it yourself about past Cal teams.

[Joneslab]

That's been a common refrain for years.

There've been a lot of fan refrains that don't really hold up to scrutiny over the years.

That Cal needs a bench coach.

That Tubby Smith "won't let the horses run."

That Cal won't let the horses run.

That Tubby "micromanages."

That Cal won't play white players.

That Rick Pitino can't coach his way out of a wet paper sack. That Roy Williams can't. That Cal can't. That Steve Alford can't.

Etc.

We've had record-busting three-point shooters under Cal. Just last year we basically had Steph Curry out there. Not sure about this team...but I think you have to look to the offensive numbers in total. And when you score in the mid 90s for eight consecutive games, I'm not sure how much of a problem we really have offensively.

[Westtncat]

There've been a lot of fan refrains that don't really hold up to scrutiny over the years.

That Cal needs a bench coach.

That Tubby Smith "won't let the horses run."

That Cal won't let the horses run.

That Tubby "micromanages."

That Cal won't play white players.

That Rick Pitino can't coach his way out of a wet paper sack. That Roy Williams can't. That Cal can't. That Steve Alford can't.

Etc.

We've had record-busting three-point shooters under Cal. Just last year we basically had Steph Curry out there. Not sure about this team...but I think you have to look to the offensive numbers in total. And when you score in the mid 90s for eight consecutive games, I'm not sure how much of a problem we really have offensively.

I know for a fact that Cal has played at least two white players during his tenure so I know that one is false

[Katmendo]

"Skill deficits" and "complimentary" aren't at all the same thing. It sounds more and more like you're saying a successful team must have some measure of every major skill, but there's decades' worth of evidence that that isn't true. Not every championship team had it all.

Name the ones that didn't. Give it a whirl. I think you're going to be surprised at just how much EXACTLY what I'm talking about is true. In fact, I'm certain of it.

http://www.ncaa.com/history/basketball-men/d1

Look backward at that list. To me, it's pretty clear. A lot of teams whose players compliment each other. No team full of nothing but shooters. Ehhh. Maybe the 91 Duke team. No team full of run only players. No team with drive only guards.

Maybe I'm missing something.

[George]

We've had record-busting three-point shooters under Cal. Just last year we basically had Steph Curry out there. Not sure about this team...but I think you have to look to the offensive numbers in total. And when you score in the mid 90s for eight consecutive games, I'm not sure how much of a problem we really have offensively.

I agree with this, but I still don't think you can say that the pack it in and make us shoot approach hasn't been a pretty effective way to beat Cal's teams over the years (on the rare nights when we actually lose). We've had recent record-breaking shooters, but we get those guys one at at time, and they're usually the only dudes on that particular team who can shoot with any consistency.

Last year was different, sure. But Cal's teams usually don't favor the shooter, and we've ran into a lot of teams who've played exactly the way I'm talking about. We've fortunately been so strong in other areas that poor shooting nights haven't always done us in, but on those nights we've lost, or looked like we were going to lose, it's often been because teams have clogged the middle and dared us to shoot. And when Lamb or Aa. Harrison or Murray weren't hitting, and that's the way the defense played us, we struggled.

[Joneslab]

I'd be worried if Kentucky was totally complimenting each other on December 3 starting four freshmen and a sophomore. They've been way ahead of schedule offensively in my mind, even after today.

Thought they were ahead of schedule defensively, but got a reality check today. When playing solid competition they failed miserably on the defensive end.

Still not sure we're talking about how players compliment each other. I would go so far as saying that Briscoe is an unusual player because he's basically a point guard being force to play on the wing most of the time. We talked last year about how he didn't fit in totally. But up until today he'd been a devastating player.

Best thing about Briscoe is that you can stick him in the middle of zones and his passing and strength kill you. Alford smartly didn't play zone today and Briscoe was taken out.

Not sure any of that speaks to how well or poorly the players compliment each other.

[Joneslab]

I agree with this, but I still don't think you can say that the pack it in and make us shoot approach hasn't been a pretty effective way to beat Cal's teams over the years.

Outside of those two teams it hasn't. (Not counting this one as the jury's still out.)

You could pack in on Wall. You could pack in on the Ryan Harrow bunch.

I think every other team Cal has had would at the very least hold its own out there. The statistics bear that out.

As for fan refrains: fans will talk about offense in a game where we gave up 97 points.

[George]

Name the ones that didn't. Give it a whirl. I think you're going to be surprised at just how much EXACTLY what I'm talking about is true. In fact, I'm certain of it.

http://www.ncaa.com/history/basketball-men/d1

Look backward at that list. To me, it's pretty clear. A lot of teams whose players compliment each other. No team full of nothing but shooters. Ehhh. Maybe the 91 Duke team. No team full of run only players. No team with drive only guards.

Maybe I'm missing something.

I don't remember every single player who played for every single one of those teams (I doubt you do, either), nor do I have the time to sift through every lineup right now. Maybe tomorrow.

Even if I did, I don't think we'd get anywhere because you seem to have a pretty specific definition of "compliment." If you're the one who decides what it means to compliment one another, then you can make the data say whatever you want.

[Westtncat]

If you want to know why Cals teams lose games like this you can look at Cal. I have seen his teams play THE EXACT SAME WAY since he was at Memphis. For whatever reason certain teams self destruct or as one poster kept saying today they are playing hero ball. I have seen over and over. Get behind, panic and start trying to do too much or not play within the offense. They dont play ream ball, they play panicked. you start seeing a lot of ill advised shots and a lot of one on one. I have seen it for years. Why Cal cant calm them and simply say..".do what we do and dont panic, there is lots of time" is beyond me. You have to play as a team not as talented individuals.

[Joneslab]

There have been a few suspect teams who've won titles in college basketball over the last 15 years.

Kemba Walker, hello. That John Scheyer team that won it for Duke had three players who could do anything. The Syracuse team who won it with Carmelo was weak.

Much more than "complimentary," what matters in college basketball is heating up at the appropriate time and getting a good draw in the tournament.

Villanova last year became a different team on March 1st than they'd been through the year. Something clicked. This was a team who got beat by 25 by Oklahoma early in the year. In March they beat that same Oklahoma team by 40.

We weight the regular season a tad too much...though I will say when you give up 97 at home you can't totally dismiss that.

[George]

Outside of those two teams it hasn't. (Not counting this one as the jury's still out.)

You could pack in on Wall. You could pack in on the Ryan Harrow bunch.

I think every other team Cal has had would at the very least hold its own out there. The statistics bear that out.

As for fan refrains: fans will talk about offense in a game where we gave up 97 points.

I think for a time you could do it to the Knight team. Jones started off like a monster them slumped and found his role late; Knight and Lamb had to carry us on more than one occasion and they didn't always get the job done. You could pack it in against the Randle team, too. It didn't take teams all that long to figure out his spin move, and Aaron Harrison didn't hit big shots all season long.

[Joneslab]

Why Cal cant calm them and simply say..".do what we do and dont panic, there is lots of time" is beyond me.

Coaching seems easy.

In all honesty I agree with you about today's game. I don't think it's a common thing I've noticed with Cal or anything (pretty gaudy winning percentage), but just looking at today they definitely panicked. Started to grab and slap and foul when they got down double-digits.

I think it's a byproduct of having so much youth. Those are 18- and 19-year-olds. Cal usually does a good job at keeping them grounded, but they lost the thread a little today.