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Cal Says Every Player on Team, Including Walk-Ons, Will Submit Name for the Draft

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  • surveyor
    Administrator
    • Oct 2014
    • 14474

    #46
    I don't believe this is rooted in Cal honestly desiring all these guys to follow through with what he's encouraging. It's not aimed so much at the guys on the team as it is future prospects who see a coach who is totally invested in encouraging them to their dreams.

    It's the P.T. Barnum - Tony Malito salesmanship pitch.
    Extremism is so easy. You've got your position, and that's it. It doesn't take much thought. And when you go far enough to the right you meet the same idiots coming around from the left.

    Clint Eastwood

    Comment

    • Joneslab
      Senior Member
      • Oct 2014
      • 39604

      #47
      Originally posted by surveyor
      I don't believe this is rooted in Cal honestly desiring all these guys to follow through with what he's encouraging. It's not aimed so much at the guys on the team as it is future prospects who see a coach who is totally invested in encouraging them to their dreams.
      It's definitely about that.

      I also think he legitimately loves his players.

      As fans it's hard for us to get on that wavelength. First, we know Cal, how slick he is, etc. We automatically chalk it up to salesmanship and gimmickry.

      But I've come to believe him when he talks about "looking out for the kids" and "doing what's best for these families."

      I used to not believe that. Then I got to watch him up close in practice: he seems to genuinely love the players. I don't think that's farce or artifice; that seems to be honest-to-God real. This is a guy who will stop practice and demand that a player give him a hug.

      This is the anti-Gillispie we're dealing with here. As fans, it's hard to relate to that. The success of these players mostly has to do with us: our desire to see our team do well.

      Cal has warped the very nature of fandom. In some ways he's almost poked a stick at it.

      It's one of the things we all criticize him for...but in turn you have that "future prospects" thing. So at its core it is still very much about winning.

      Comment

      • KCKUKFan
        Senior Member
        • Nov 2014
        • 14228

        #48
        What if Jonny Davis doesn't want to put his name in the draft? If I was him, it would strike me as an unnecessary annoyance.

        "Leave me alone, coach. I'm busy."

        Comment

        • J.Jennings
          Banned
          • Oct 2014
          • 7005

          #49
          Got to give Cal credit, he's a innovator and works the rules of the system to the fullest.

          Comment

          • KevinHall
            Senior Member
            • Oct 2014
            • 6857

            #50
            The NBA just to get Cal back should invite every one of them to the combine. Then we will see who truly stays and who goes. Cal might then get a cold water slap in the face for pulling this stunt.

            I have read a few people that have said with this new way of doing this and the long time lag, May 25th, to drop out of the draft may lend to more staying in. They feel like the longer a kid keeps his name in the pool the more likely he will just keep it there. I think that line of thinking is plausible for some anyway.
            Kentucky fan since 1971.

            Comment

            • justafan
              Senior Member
              • Oct 2014
              • 1407

              #51
              Roy Williams during his Sweet 16 interview on right now was asked about Cal putting all his players names in the draft. His reply was something like "Cal's a buddy of mine, but some times he's out in left field. I'll start worrying if Cal puts HIS name in the draft". Sometimes Roy can be hilarious.

              Apparently Mike Brey made a comment that HE was going to put his name in the draft.

              Let me just repeat - I think its a "good thing" for players to get as much information as possible. That doesn't change:

              1) the inane idea that the walk-ons are included
              2) that Skal will be picked at by the fans no matter whether the whole team (walk-ons included) enters their names or just 4 or 5 players. When the final deadline hits and/if Skal's name is in the draft, he'll be roasted. It doesn't matter what verbal smoke screen Cal throws up.

              Here's the fallacy of the "Skal needs 2 more years" argument. If Skal "needs" 2 more years and goes into the draft for guaranteed money HE CAN STILL IMPROVE. It would be in the D-league instead of against college players. Either he will improve in the d-league, or he won't. The difference is, he'll be making millions (assuming a guaranteed contract).

              Fans are selfish, doesn't matter what Cal does.

              Comment

              • UKtimefor9
                Senior Member
                • Apr 2015
                • 105

                #52
                Originally posted by KCKUKFan
                What if Jonny Davis doesn't want to put his name in the draft? If I was him, it would strike me as an unnecessary annoyance.

                "Leave me alone, coach. I'm busy."

                I saw this on another site.

                Comment

                • Joneslab
                  Senior Member
                  • Oct 2014
                  • 39604

                  #53
                  Originally posted by justafan
                  1) the inane idea that the walk-ons are included
                  2) that Skal will be picked at by the fans no matter whether the whole team (walk-ons included) enters their names or just 4 or 5 players. When the final deadline hits and/if Skal's name is in the draft, he'll be roasted. It doesn't matter what verbal smoke screen Cal throws up.
                  But if Skal (or Briscoe, or Lee) comes back, because he was packaged with the rest of the team nobody would ever know how far he got in the process.

                  If individual players were picked out as testing the waters, then there would be some major criticism of the two or three UK fans wouldn't deem ready to go. There were people doing everything short of calling Daniel Orton the spawn of Satan when he put his name in. If he would've come back? Awkward. The way to stay away from that is have them all go--or at least announce--together as a group. This is the way it's done every year at UK.

                  The "walk-ons" thing was just Cal rattling cages. Might as well have just said, "Most players on the team are going to put their name in," or something like that, but Cal's one of these guys who likes to tussle, even with UK fans. I've seen him sit there in postgame press conferences and have back-and-forths with fans.

                  Some people are like that. They love to joust, but they're usually doing it with a smile. Cal knows Kentucky fans get bent out of shape and he loves nothing more than to go round and round. Cal is one of those odd people who needs to have antagonism in his life. Seems to make him go. This is why he's usually digging at Pitino and Coach K and the NCAA. Guy loves to create a maelstrom of activity and talk around himself and the team.

                  Comment

                  • Matt Dillon
                    Administrator
                    • Oct 2014
                    • 49625

                    #54
                    Originally posted by justafan
                    Roy Williams during his Sweet 16 interview on right now was asked about Cal putting all his players names in the draft. His reply was something like "Cal's a buddy of mine, but some times he's out in left field. I'll start worrying if Cal puts HIS name in the draft". Sometimes Roy can be hilarious.

                    Apparently Mike Brey made a comment that HE was going to put his name in the draft.

                    Let me just repeat - I think its a "good thing" for players to get as much information as possible. That doesn't change:

                    1) the inane idea that the walk-ons are included
                    2) that Skal will be picked at by the fans no matter whether the whole team (walk-ons included) enters their names or just 4 or 5 players. When the final deadline hits and/if Skal's name is in the draft, he'll be roasted. It doesn't matter what verbal smoke screen Cal throws up.

                    Here's the fallacy of the "Skal needs 2 more years" argument. If Skal "needs" 2 more years and goes into the draft for guaranteed money HE CAN STILL IMPROVE. It would be in the D-league instead of against college players. Either he will improve in the d-league, or he won't. The difference is, he'll be making millions (assuming a guaranteed contract).

                    Fans are selfish, doesn't matter what Cal does.
                    Great post, in my opinion.
                    Philippians 4:11-4:13

                    Comment

                    • justafan
                      Senior Member
                      • Oct 2014
                      • 1407

                      #55
                      Originally posted by Will Lavender

                      But if Skal (or Briscoe, or Lee) comes back, because he was packaged with the rest of the team nobody would ever know how far he got in the process.

                      If individual players were picked out as testing the waters, then there would be some major criticism of the two or three UK fans wouldn't deem ready to go. ......
                      I guess I don't understand this line of thinking. Who on here DOESN'T believe Skal/Briscoe/Lee is going to test the waters?

                      There are 3 possibilities:
                      1) he tests the waters, stays in draft
                      2) he tests the waters, pulls name out
                      3) he doesn't test waters

                      Clearly 3 can't be done because Cal is making everyone put their name in. That leaves 1 & 2.

                      If 1 happens, the selfish fans will be their normal selves and ******************** and moan about the latest rich player and second guess him by saying he could have made more, etc. by staying.

                      If 2 happens, there will be those complainers that say "he had no business testing the waters anyways".

                      So basically, 1 & 2 are no win situations with some fans - big surprise.

                      Cal playing his Ringling Brothers "all the walk-ons are entering the draft" card, doesn't change that a bit. It just makes some (reasonable?) fans shake their heads at Cal and move on.

                      Ringling Brothers.

                      Nonsense.

                      Cal.

                      Comment

                      • Joneslab
                        Senior Member
                        • Oct 2014
                        • 39604

                        #56
                        Originally posted by justafan

                        I guess I don't understand this line of thinking. Who on here DOESN'T believe Skal/Briscoe/Lee is going to test the waters?
                        There are people saying that Marcus Lee needs to give up basketball. I don't think Kentucky fans are going to be all "Yeah, you go get 'em Marcus!"

                        I'm not saying Cal should be talking about the walk-ons. Personally I don't give a flip about the comment one way or the other; I see how it would irk people, but it certainly doesn't irk me. I haven't thought about it at all outside this thread.

                        But here's the fact: it does irk people. I brought up Jodie Meeks before: Orestes Meeks became a member of Wildcatnation at one point and began to try and talk fans down who were adamantly saying Jodie would never be a pro.

                        You're cutting right to the quick for UK fans with this kind of stuff. If Cal didn't win and do so many other stuff so well this kind of thing would never fly with this fanbase. In fact it doesn't fly with a lot of people even with the winning. I think he and UK acknowledge that, and they try to soften it any way they can. Getting groups of players to decide together is one way to cut out some of the guff he and the players take.

                        Ever seen Cal's Facebook when the NBA is brought up? Yikes. You're not dealing with rationality when it comes to UK fans and their team. Many (most) don't really care about the players' futures when you come right down to it. I can honestly say that I don't. I want them to play for UK and then outside that I follow them only passively.

                        I have family members of my own that I am way more invested in. These players are mainly intriguing to me when they're wearing the jersey that says "Kentucky" on the front.
                        Last edited by Joneslab; 03-25-2016, 09:09 AM.

                        Comment

                        • KCKUKFan
                          Senior Member
                          • Nov 2014
                          • 14228

                          #57
                          Originally posted by Will Lavender
                          I have family members of my own that I am way more invested in. These players are mainly intriguing to me when they're wearing the jersey that says "Kentucky" on the front.
                          In a way, it's cruel. We view these kids as our entertainment and nothing more.

                          Comment

                          • Joneslab
                            Senior Member
                            • Oct 2014
                            • 39604

                            #58
                            Originally posted by KCKUKFan

                            In a way, it's cruel. We view these kids as our entertainment and nothing more.
                            Yep. I'm happy for them on draft night...but Cal's "This is the greatest day" spiel has never done anything for me.

                            Some can't tolerate that and criticize Cal. I don't criticize Cal for that because I think it's about the future; he's giving a recruiting speech inside of that.

                            But there are levels to this. Some Kentucky fans dislike it; some can be vicious. I mean, Daniel Orton--not a popular player, made some mistakes, but fans didn't take kindly to that whole thing. Archie got some of the same stuff.

                            Cal knows the deal at this point with fans. It's easy to get around it: you just don't have the players announce by name or individually. Things are done as a team if possible.

                            Now when they come back you'll notice that they do so individually. They'll do it on Twitter, or if they're Terrence Jones they hold a press conference. A lot of praise for that. We even loved the twins for that fleeting moment. But when they go, or even "test the waters," it can be sticky.

                            But here we are, once again, in that impossible divide between how Cal sees the program and how we see it.
                            Last edited by Joneslab; 03-25-2016, 10:01 AM.

                            Comment

                            • Matt Dillon
                              Administrator
                              • Oct 2014
                              • 49625

                              #59
                              Originally posted by Will Lavender

                              Many (most) don't really care about the players' futures when you come right down to it. I can honestly say that I don't. I want them to play for UK and then outside that I follow them only passively.

                              I have family members of my own that I am way more invested in. These players are mainly intriguing to me when they're wearing the jersey that says "Kentucky" on the front.
                              This fits me to a "t".
                              Philippians 4:11-4:13

                              Comment

                              • Joneslab
                                Senior Member
                                • Oct 2014
                                • 39604

                                #60
                                On KSR today Cal said that a player doesn't want to be a D-League player, and if he's projected in the second round he's going to come back.

                                You'd have to think it's Briscoe.

                                Comment

                                 

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                                Cal Says Every Player on Team, Including Walk-Ons, Will Submit Name for the Draft

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