Cal's Actual Goal Was...........

[J.Jennings]

I don't think any part of the system is more important than the other.

Without the fans there's no program. But without a great coach there's a lot of apathy. And without players there's no great coach.

It's like those flow charts you used to see in science books with all the parts of an ecosystem feeding the other. Cal is too intent on playing up the players at the expense of the fans; the fans deserve a ton of credit simply because many of these fans that give money and time and energy to this program were around before Calipari was playing organized basketball.

But it's also true that there are fans who believe the program would be as strong as it is without Calipari and/or these players.

Those fans have short memories.

I agree with you and yes you are right in regards to need a great coach with great players to coach a great program like Kentucky. Still, is it possible that Cal's "angle" became a little easier by being at a place like Kentucky rather than Memphis or Umass? To me, having a great coach at a great program like Kentucky is like pouring gasoline on a fire, it's going to blow and most likely in a good way.

Cal has some things he could improve on but don't we all? At this point in the college game, Cal is irreplacable and we can only hope the next guy can half way fill his shoes. I think it's possible for the next guy who can't recruit as good as Cal to coach a team up and make some noise (Wisconsin style) , but he's still going to have to land a few very good players. Tubby had a couple of teams with the talent to win it all but came up short. Once the recruiting tailed off, it was all she wrote......

All in all, i ***** and get frustrated with Cal but im not calling for a new by any means. Im still bitter over the fact we didn't run the table but yesterday is yesterday, looking foward to next season.

[J.Jennings]

Cal's approach is essentially, if he gets the talent he's after, the rest will fall into place.

Which is why alot of coaches hate on him and play the "if i could get those guys" card on Cal. Even if some of these guys did get players like Calipari, can they control them???? What i do like about Calipari is that he keeps it gangster and real with these kids. He may be kissing tail behind closed doors but in the spotlight he's giving them hell game in and game out. Cal is one of those guys who can be a smart *** and get by with it because you still like him. Pitino on the other hand is a guy that can be a smart *** and you end up hating his guts......

[justford]

Something that gets overlooked is the players stay out of trouble off the court.

[Lighthouse]

Fans have always, and will continue to be supportive of Kentucky Basketball. Every Coach has addressed that fan support and tried their best to fulfill the fans expectations, and all the while realizing they are under a microscope with every player they sign, every player they start and every substitution they make. So with those eyes watching every move they make, our coaches from Rupp to Calipari must do the job they were hired to do and make decisions based on what they feel is the best for Kentucky Basketball. Should we make a difference? To a point, but in the end, each coach must make their own decisions.

[Sean]

I appreciate when one of our players gets drafted. I will even make a point of reading an article on espn if I see their name in the headlines. But I am a UK fan, I want UK to win it all, I spend alot of money supporting the PROGRAM. Now don't get me wrong, I know these are kids, but lets face it, we pay for their scholarships so they have a chance to go to school while they also play a sport we all love and not to be the NBA D-League.

Of course the goal is to always recruit the best players but you also need to show results that the people who pay for your plane rides around the country on recruiting trips are wanting. We want Championships. We pay alot of money to Cal for championships.

As unpopular opinion as this may be I have to put it out there. Everytime I see a kid get brought to UK simply as a training camp for the next NBA combine I think about all the players out there who are good enough to build a team with who also miss out on the type of education that UK can provide. A team of good players playing as a team will almost always beat a team of great players who can't play as a team. In my opinion we saw that break down with the shot clock violations.

So I say build a team with the best players that make that team and not just go get as many top recruits as you can regardless of your teams needs or plans for success. If a team with the individual talent we had last season can't win it all then perhaps we should rethink the model.

[Joneslab]

So I say build a team with the best players that make that team and not just go get as many top recruits as you can regardless of your teams needs or plans for success. If a team with the individual talent we had last season can't win it all then perhaps we should rethink the model.

When you go 38-1 and lose in the Final Four, I don't think the model needs to be changed in any way. It'd be like throwing Pitino's model out in '93 after the Michigan loss or in '94 after the bad Marquette loss. In college basketball because one game changes the whole complexion of a season, you can't let that one game be the decider of how you're going to operate.

As for paying Cal for championships: of course that's the case, but you obviously can't win one every year. Cal sits with the same number of titles in six years that Pitino had, the same number that Tubby had, the same number that Joe B. Hall had.

It's hard. And unpredictable.

[Joneslab]

And really I don't see much of a difference now and the Pitino years.

Records are similar. NCAA Tournament success is similar. Cal's better with the off-the-court stuff but had the NIT. We obviously lose way more players now but I think we're more attached to the players because of KSR and the constant stream of media attention. Pitino's playing style was more fun to watch but Cal has more freakish individual talent. (Watching John Wall in person was a life-changing experience for me.)

I don't see much of a difference at all.

And the Pitino years are seen as the kind of apex of the post-Rupp era by many.

This era is too until we lose a game, and then the perspective changes.

What's going to happen 20 years from now is that right now is going to be looked at as an apex. I think a lot of times we over-criticize the present because we're in it. It's difficult to get a long view of it because the losses are too crushing, the failures too raw.

We may never see winning like this again in our lifetimes. Even though there are going to be more "fun" seasons and we will win titles, we'll never see a year like the one we just witnessed again, ever. These six years have been highly unusual even for a place like Kentucky.

[Sean]

And really I don't see much of a difference now and the Pitino years.

Records are similar. NCAA Tournament success is similar. Cal's better with the off-the-court stuff but had the NIT. We obviously lose way more players now but I think we're more attached to the players because of KSR and the constant stream of media attention. Pitino's playing style was more fun to watch but Cal has more freakish individual talent. (Watching John Wall in person was a life-changing experience for me.)

I don't see much of a difference at all.

And the Pitino years are seen as the kind of apex of the post-Rupp era by many.

This era is too until we lose a game, and then the perspective changes.

What's going to happen 20 years from now is that right now is going to be looked at as an apex. I think a lot of times we over-criticize the present because we're in it. It's difficult to get a long view of it because the losses are too crushing, the failures too raw.

We may never see winning like this again in our lifetimes. Even though there are going to be more "fun" seasons and we will win titles, we'll never see a year like the one we just witnessed again, ever. These six years have been highly unusual even for a place like Kentucky.

Perhaps it is the attitude that SEC championships don't matter and that his goal is to put 8 players into the NBA instead of winning an NCAA Championship that just doesn't sit well with me. My goals don't align with his.

I'm also of the mindset that as long as you are winning when it counts that the difference in 1 loss and 5 losses doesn't add up to much in the grand scheme of things. History remembers champions.

[Joneslab]

I'm also of the mindset that as long as you are winning when it counts that the difference in 1 loss and 5 losses doesn't add up to much in the grand scheme of things. History remembers champions.

Kentucky has only won four championships since 1958.

That's 57 teams. History definitely forgets many of those teams, but I sure remember following them. Some of my favorite teams at Kentucky didn't win titles.

If a title is the only barometer of success, then it's really difficult to be in any way energized and excited about the product because I'm not sure how one could care much about anything but that one game in April. For me--and I obviously can only speak for me--there's the joy of following the team. Watching them grow. Watching them overcome obstacles and get better. This is why some of my favorite teams are ones that were flawed: 2014, 2003, 2004, 1997, etc.

[Joneslab]

Actually my favorite Kentucky team was maybe 2003-2004. That team lost in the second round to UAB.

[Sean]

Kentucky has only won four championships since 1958.

That's 57 teams. History definitely forgets many of those teams, but I sure remember following them. Some of my favorite teams at Kentucky didn't win titles.

If a title is the only barometer of success, then it's really difficult to be in any way energized and excited about the product because I'm not sure how one could care much about anything but that one game in April. For me--and I obviously can only speak for me--there's the joy of following the team. Watching them grow. Watching them overcome obstacles and get better. This is why some of my favorite teams are ones that were flawed: 2014, 2003, 2004, 1997, etc.

I agree watching them grow is fun. Watching them not grow, and come in and win 38 games and then inexplicably do what ever it was they did at the season is frustrating. Let's face it, it's great to say championships aren't the only barometer of success but at the end of the day don't we watch this sport to be entertained?

It's the story of the teams that are entertaining and so when you take a team that should run the table just based on superior talent, and that's the narrative that was built, and they fail in that goal well then the story has a terrible ending and it wouldn't be a story I would want to digest again. Yet we do by not building teams and just stacking the bench as full as we can.

[Joneslab]

It's the story of the teams that are entertaining and so when you take a team that should run the table just based on superior talent, and that's the narrative that was built, and they fail in that goal well then the story has a terrible ending and it wouldn't be a story I would want to digest again.

No, but that was a great team.

If they would've been beaten by anybody but Wisconsin I think--again, this is just me--the horror would've been far greater.

Because it was Wisconsin, the team that I thought matched up against us by far the best, the team that we'd beaten the previous year, the team that played a style equipped to beat Kentucky, I was shocked but not like I was after that UAB loss I mentioned above, or maybe even after the West Virginia game in the Wall year.

I thought we would beat them, but you could look at how close the spread was for that game and how Wisconsin had been playing and to me that game was an upset, but it wasn't so catastrophic that you should look at everything Cal has done and wish to tear it apart.

Because we've tried the model where we don't get this kind of talent at UK. That was happening here before Cal came. A lot of people had problems with it and it yielded not a single Final Four in more than a decade.

[Joneslab]

And going back to a point that was made above re: whether or not Cal wanted the "Our goal was to have 8 draft picks" thing to get out, I thought this was interesting.

I think it's pretty clear that the Alltech speech was nothing more than a direct recruiting pitch tailored for one player.

[Joneslab]

Cal and Barnhart respond.

“The only thing people are hitting on is, ‘Well, he’s only trying to get guys into the NBA,’” Calipari said. “No, I love these kids and I love their dreams, but I also love results and results for us at Kentucky are winning national titles, being in Final Fours, being significant in everything we do. Now, if you’re going to argue with my results, please do it publicly so you can look foolish.

“I’m about these kids,” Calipari repeated. “But I’m also about results. If you don’t think I am you’re just an angry person just to be angry.”

He also says that he "likes to rib" people, and I think that's the biggest part of why Cal says stuff. There are guys you see--almost always men--who like nothing more than getting into...discussions with you. They like to rattle your cage and then step back with a smile on their face. Cal's always in that mode, a lot of times with rivals but sometimes even with UK fans.

He knows how seriously we take it and he likes to poke fun at it. Most of us can't understand that and we get mad, but Cal's always got this grin on his face when he's saying things. It's odd but sometimes it can be hilarious and sometimes--like with Pitino--I think it actually makes him a better coach.

[surveyor]

In other words, Cal's a troll who likes to provoke.