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Who Goes, Who Stays: 2021 Edition

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  • George
    Senior Member
    • Oct 2014
    • 10355

    #151
    Cal's saying behind the scenes that Trevor Keels is the only high schooler he'll continue to recruit for next season. All other new players will come from the transfer portal.

    We're currently sitting third for Keels behind Duke and Villanova, so it's a safe bet that our high school class is complete.

    Comment

    • Joneslab
      Senior Member
      • Oct 2014
      • 39604

      #152
      There are going to be a bazillion transfers available so that makes sense. I wouldn't be surprised to see Kentucky have as many as seven of them.

      Comment

      • Dwight Schrute
        Senior Member
        • Oct 2014
        • 18716

        #153
        Originally posted by Will Lavender
        There are going to be a bazillion transfers available so that makes sense. I wouldn't be surprised to see Kentucky have as many as seven of them.
        Matt Jones thinks that going forward Kentucky's only recruiting freshmen kids who'll be one and done and will continue to mine the transfer market.

        I'm not sure I like that.

        Comment

        • Joneslab
          Senior Member
          • Oct 2014
          • 39604

          #154
          Originally posted by Dwight Schrute

          Matt Jones thinks that going forward Kentucky's only recruiting freshmen kids who'll be one and done and will continue to mine the transfer market.

          I'm not sure I like that.
          If true it suggests what we've always kind of known about Cal: he really has no desire to keep kids around in order to build any semblance of experience. May even go so far as to say he doesn't think experience matters a whole lot. He seems to like that one, maybe two, returners...and then a totally new team otherwise.

          It can only win if the freshmen and/or transfers are elite. Just good, even very good, talent cannot offset a lack of experience. You've got to have kids who have been through the battles and come back hungrier, or you've got to have freshmen stars.

          What I don't like about it is that the margin for error is so tight.

          Comment

          • George
            Senior Member
            • Oct 2014
            • 10355

            #155
            Originally posted by Dwight Schrute

            Matt Jones thinks that going forward Kentucky's only recruiting freshmen kids who'll be one and done and will continue to mine the transfer market.

            I'm not sure I like that.
            Pilgrim discussed this on his most recent podcast. Said he believes Cal will go harder than ever for guys ranked 1-9 because they have the highest chance of being immediate-impact players, then will get the best he can from the 26-40 group with the goal of keeping them around for multiple years -- as in, he'd actually approach them with that plan instead of telling them they can work their way into OAD status. Pilgrim went on to say he thinks the 11-15 group is what has gotten Cal into the most trouble recently (I disagree completely), and that this plan, mixed with an even greater emphasis on the transfer market, is how Cal will move forward.

            So, my question is, how is that any different than what he's been doing? And what does that say about his recent efforts to get top-nine or -ten guys?

            This approach is pretty flawed, IMO.

            Comment

            • Joneslab
              Senior Member
              • Oct 2014
              • 39604

              #156
              I highly doubt Cal is looking at the rankings the way fans or recruiting analysts do. More than thinking about it in terms of players' rank, I'd imagine he and the staff are looking more at whether or not that player has NBA potential. That exists mostly in players at the top but not always.

              There's also the question of fit. In the Cal era whether or not a player fits at UK comes down to whether he and his family can answer this question affirmatively: "Do you want to get in and out of college as quickly as possible?" I would wager that question is asked of every one of the potential recruits.

              That's what needs to change. The question should really get ditched altogether, because at some point UK became known--even among players' families that wanted to be one-and-done; the whole Jabari Parker thing comes to mind--as a one-trick pony. We were only looking to get guys to the NBA and nothing else mattered.

              This whole thing Cal is talking about now regarding "skill vs. athleticism" I think cuts back to this question. I believe he's trying to figure out how to rebrand Kentucky. The trouble is it's not that easy, because once you run a system like this for a solid decade you tend to get a reputation.

              Comment

              • lilproUK98
                Senior Member
                • Nov 2014
                • 2472

                #157
                Originally posted by Downes Van Zandt

                Pilgrim discussed this on his most recent podcast. Said he believes Cal will go harder than ever for guys ranked 1-9 because they have the highest chance of being immediate-impact players, then will get the best he can from the 26-40 group with the goal of keeping them around for multiple years -- as in, he'd actually approach them with that plan instead of telling them they can work their way into OAD status. Pilgrim went on to say he thinks the 11-15 group is what has gotten Cal into the most trouble recently (I disagree completely), and that this plan, mixed with an even greater emphasis on the transfer market, is how Cal will move forward.

                So, my question is, how is that any different than what he's been doing? And what does that say about his recent efforts to get top-nine or -ten guys?

                This approach is pretty flawed, IMO.
                No disrespect to Pilgrim, but I don't put much stock into anything he says on what he sees Cal's approach being and the analytics of the program on and off the court. While he does cover UK closely, his takes are pretty poor IMO.

                Comment

                • George
                  Senior Member
                  • Oct 2014
                  • 10355

                  #158
                  Originally posted by lilproUK98

                  No disrespect to Pilgrim, but I don't put much stock into anything he says on what he sees Cal's approach being and the analytics of the program on and off the court. While he does cover UK closely, his takes are pretty poor IMO.
                  I agree with you. His coverage is pretty abysmal, and when he does post something of value it's almost always a rehash of something someone else has already said. It's obvious that Travis Graf and David Sisk were feeding him information. Once they stopped appearing on his show, his "Pilgrim's Insider Notes" posts dried up pretty quickly, and the (mediocre) quality of his show dipped even further. He's a stammering mess, too. Pretty hard to listen to all around.

                  Comment

                  • lilproUK98
                    Senior Member
                    • Nov 2014
                    • 2472

                    #159
                    Originally posted by Downes Van Zandt

                    I agree with you. His coverage is pretty abysmal, and when he does post something of value it's almost always a rehash of something someone else has already said. It's obvious that Travis Graf and David Sisk were feeding him information. Once they stopped appearing on his show, his "Pilgrim's Insider Notes" posts dried up pretty quickly, and the (mediocre) quality of his show dipped even further. He's a stammering mess, too. Pretty hard to listen to all around.
                    Lol yeah, the definition of word vommit. It's so frustrating when he has a million thoughts running through his head and has to try and get them all out lol. Shawn just sits there during bit all, then proceeds to say pretty much the same thing in 20% of the words and one tenth of the time lol... Bless his heart

                    Comment

                    • Dwight Schrute
                      Senior Member
                      • Oct 2014
                      • 18716

                      #160
                      The going harder than ever for the 1-9 kids (or the can't miss sure fire one and done kids) is a risky proposition because everyone's doing it and you're also gonna be competing with the G League, which has real money behind it.

                      I am less concerned with how Cal recruits than I am with the style he recruits. We can't just keep getting a hodgepodge of kids who are athletic and not much else and stay relevant.

                      Comment

                      • George
                        Senior Member
                        • Oct 2014
                        • 10355

                        #161
                        Originally posted by lilproUK98

                        Lol yeah, the definition of word vommit. It's so frustrating when he has a million thoughts running through his head and has to try and get them all out lol. Shawn just sits there during bit all, then proceeds to say pretty much the same thing in 20% of the words and one tenth of the time lol... Bless his heart
                        He's almost 100 episodes in. You'd think he'd have gotten a little better at this by now.

                        Comment

                        • George
                          Senior Member
                          • Oct 2014
                          • 10355

                          #162
                          Originally posted by Dwight Schrute
                          The going harder than ever for the 1-9 kids (or the can't miss sure fire one and done kids) is a risky proposition because everyone's doing it and you're also gonna be competing with the G League, which has real money behind it.

                          I am less concerned with how Cal recruits than I am with the style he recruits. We can't just keep getting a hodgepodge of kids who are athletic and not much else and stay relevant.
                          Agreed. I wasn't aware that he'd stopped going hard at the top talent in the first place. And fwiw, this was just Pilgrim's theory; no clue if it's Cal's true intention.

                          But, let's imagine it is (not hard to do, tbh). Cal's going to double-down on his system at a time when it's obvious to everyone that that system needs an overhaul? Sounds concerning, to me.

                          Comment

                          • Joneslab
                            Senior Member
                            • Oct 2014
                            • 39604

                            #163
                            Cal at this point might only be thinking of next season and how he's going to build a roster. He might not have much of a larger plan right now, partly because everything is so in flux when you come out of a season that was as bad as we just went through.

                            Long-term he might only be on the "Coach Dajuan Wagner Jr. for one year and then retire" plan.

                            But in the short-term things are highly interesting with the way the field is going to shape up next year. Tons of available talent out there, and you would think a program like Kentucky would have a leg up on getting some of these high-profile transfers.

                            Comment

                            • Joneslab
                              Senior Member
                              • Oct 2014
                              • 39604

                              #164
                              ^ In short, were this a normal year and we just finished seven games under .500, I'd be super-worried about the future of the program. Particularly because we have a pretty uneven recruiting class as it stands.

                              But because this is not a normal year, I feel fairly confident that Cal can build a contender out of the parts and pieces that are going to be available on the transfer market. And I say "fairly" because at this point, who really knows with Cal. But we got a monumental break with the COVID transfer thing.

                              Comment

                              • George
                                Senior Member
                                • Oct 2014
                                • 10355

                                #165
                                Originally posted by Will Lavender
                                Cal at this point might only be thinking of next season and how he's going to build a roster. He might not have much of a larger plan right now, partly because everything is so in flux when you come out of a season that was as bad as we just went through.

                                Long-term he might only be on the "Coach Dajuan Wagner Jr. for one year and then retire" plan.

                                But in the short-term things are highly interesting with the way the field is going to shape up next year. Tons of available talent out there, and you would think a program like Kentucky would have a leg up on getting some of these high-profile transfers.
                                I tend to agree with this.

                                Also, the budding importance of the transfer market may negate some of our concerns about our next coach. We'll need the best guy we can get, obviously, but if transfers become as or more important than high school recruits, the new guy will have a lot more flexibility along with UK's brand recognition. We won't be so pressed to find "the next Cal" in terms of recruiting prowess.

                                Comment

                                 

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