Wisconsin redux

[Joneslab]

Elite Eights and Final Fours are impressive, but how successful most coaches are or were is measured by NC's, in my opinion.

True but there are coaches who have won one who aren't in the upper echelons of the sport.

Kevin Ollie? Gary Williams? Jim Harrick?

Cal is more in line with coaches like Tom Izzo and Roy Williams in the history of the sport. Williams has two titles and is shooting for a third, but Williams also has 29 seasons at blueblood programs. Cal was basically at mid-majors before Kentucky that he eventually built up to look like major programs. That makes a difference.

[DA#23]

Gary Williams beat us in 2002 en route to the title... still stings

[Dwight Schrute]

I do think Cal needs to win one more title to be in that conversation with Daggum Roy. I'm not sure I agree that Cal will not win another title at UK with his current system - he has gotten close twice with a freshman laden team.

That 2012 title will be remembered for Anthony Davis, but it doesn't happen without Terrence Jones, D Lamb, and Darius Miller. 2015 to me will be the one that got away. I'm still heavily salted about that loss to Wisconsin.

[Joneslab]

I do think Cal needs to win one more title to be in that conversation with Izzo, Roy, etc.

Why would Calipari be below Izzo?

Roy's two titles are more impressive, but as I said that's a lot of years at Kansas and North Carolina, two bluebloods. What would Cal have done with almost 30 years at two top-flight programs?

[Spiritof96]

I do think Cal needs to win one more title to be in that conversation with Izzo, Roy, etc. I'm not sure I agree that Cal will not win another title at UK with his current system - he has gotten close twice with a freshman laden team.

That 2012 title will be remembered for Anthony Davis, but it doesn't happen without Terrence Jones, D Lamb, and Darius Miller. 2015 to me will be the one that got away. I'm still heavily salted about that loss to Wisconsin.

Me too... that loss changed me as a fan. Probably forever.

[Dwight Schrute]

Why would Calipari be below Izzo?

Roy's two titles are more impressive, but as I said that's a lot of years at Kansas and North Carolina, two bluebloods. What would Cal have done with almost 30 years at two top-flight programs?

Yeah I dunno, I was probably thinking of someone else. Pitino maybe, unless their title is vacated.

[Spiritof96]

Why would Calipari be below Izzo?

Roy's two titles are more impressive, but as I said that's a lot of years at Kansas and North Carolina, two bluebloods. What would Cal have done with almost 30 years at two top-flight programs?

Basketball saint Dean Smith only won two titles over the course of his entire career. (11 final fours)

What we should want as fans is to be in the mix. Cal has made a final 4 at KY almost every other year and gotten us to 2 title games. That is about as good as it gets.

I wish the league would change the age requirement to something like 21 but it's not happening... EVER. So i'll live with OAD and enjoy the ride.

[Dwight Schrute]

3 Title games, actually.

3 title games in 4 trips to the final four is...a darn good success rate.

[Spiritof96]

3 Title games, actually.

3 title games in 4 trips to the final four is...a darn good success rate.

What 3? counting Memphis?

[BJD]

Never said he had a bad system, just said it is a system that will IMO yield no more championships. His success is without question, it also appears that his model can't quite get to the pinnacle unless you have Anthony Davis in it. I want a model where there is a balance of youth and veterans, and until we get it I don't think we will hoist #9.

I think Cal will win more titles here.


In thinking of this thread I thought I would post this here. This is something I posted at another site;

Right now we are all disappointed because of the loss. But it's not just about the last game of the season. If it is then UK fans can only be happy 8 times.

It's also about the journey. The Big Blue descending on cities all across the country and the world. It's about having more SEC tourney titles than the rest of the SEC combined.

It's about going to games in Chicago, LV, NY or wherever and being a commanding presence. It's about the house that Rupp built. It's the pageantry of it all. It's about being the winningest college basketball program of all time.

It's about having 5 coaches with a national title. It's about sustained excellence over not just decades but for over a century.

It's everything about UK basketball that keeps me here as a UK fan. Of course any season ending loss is devastating as I think we should win them all.

But those season ending losses do not define us. At least to me it doesn't. It's been a fantastic journey for my whole life and it's not over yet. There's more to come and I can't wait!!

[Jload]

A lot of Kentucky fans swore it would never yield any championships.

True but it was lightning in a bottle I have trouble seeing duplicated. Considering his recruits feel almost obligated to go pro after a year, in truth he recruits
them with that in mind, explain how he will get enough skilled veterans on his team to win another one. I didn't say compete for one, his talent level will always have him in the hunt, I talking about winning it ,being the champions, just don't see it happening again with Freshmen. When will this occur, certianly will not be next year, will be the greenest team he has had at U.K.

[Joneslab]

True but it was lightning in a bottle I have trouble seeing duplicated.

That makes it sound like luck.

I was listening to the radio that year after we'd just crushed somebody, and fan after fan called in to Matt Jones to claim we weren't going to win it. One fan I distinctly remember said we needed to hire Tom Izzo because he didn't choke.

Fans are really big on speaking in absolutes the day after a loss.

[Joneslab]

And really if you look at this team I don't think there's really anything you can take away from yesterday in terms of where this program is or where it's going.

People want to glean these broad, telling things from losses. "Clearly what that loss showed is that we'll never..." and so on.

Sometimes you just lose.

That game yesterday wasn't like the John Wall year. I think after that year you could definitely say: we need more shooters. (Which Cal went out and got with Doron Lamb.)

It wasn't like the Wisconsin loss. That was a real failure of coaching in the last few minutes.

That game yesterday was just a loss. Those happen. That could have gone either way. I know it's really easy to try and take something away from it, but in all honesty we DID have that veteran balance. I mean, if you looked at Dom Hawkins in the last half of the season and didn't know any better, you'd think that guy was a five-star out of high school. Derek Willis was out there virtually all the time.

So we had decent youth/experience balance. We just lost a game that if we would have gotten the ball back one more time, we likely would have won. The distance between those two teams--one loaded with veterans, the other not--was miniscule.

[BJD]

And really if you look at this team I don't think there's really anything you can take away from yesterday in terms of where this program is or where it's going.

People want to glean these broad, telling things from losses. "Clearly what that loss showed is that we'll never..." and so on.

Sometimes you just lose.

That game yesterday wasn't like the John Wall year. I think after that year you could definitely say: we need more shooters. (Which Cal went out and got with Doron Lamb.)

It wasn't like the Wisconsin loss. That was a real failure of coaching in the last few minutes.

That game yesterday was just a loss. Those happen. That could have gone either way. I know it's really easy to try and take something away from it, but in all honesty we DID have that veteran balance. I mean, if you looked at Dom Hawkins in the last half of the season and didn't know any better, you'd think that guy was a five-star out of high school. Derek Willis was out there virtually all the time.

So we had decent youth/experience balance. We just lost a game that if we would have gotten the ball back one more time, we likely would have won. The distance between those two teams--one loaded with veterans, the other not--was miniscule.

We played UNC 2 games this season. Both on neutral courts. We outscored them by 1 point over those 80 minutes. That's pretty evenly matched. And they were supposed to be all that. None of the talking heads picked UK to win yesterday. Vegas had us an underdog. They were the 1 seed. We were the two. We lost by 2 points on a last second shot.

You're right. There is nothing to be taken from that game other than we lost.

It's earth shattering to us because we are fans of the team that lost. But it's simply a loss.

[Los Gatos]

Mulder missing that layup after the steal and we had a 3 on 1 fast break was a huge momentum changer for us. He should have tried to dunk it on the guy or just make sure he gets fouled at the very least. We were primed for a run there and my heart sank when we got nothing out of it.

Yep.