Wisconsin redux

[Spiritof96]

I think Cal will win more titles here.


In thinking of this thread I thought I would post this here. This is something I posted at another site;

Right now we are all disappointed because of the loss. But it's not just about the last game of the season. If it is then UK fans can only be happy 8 times.

It's also about the journey. The Big Blue descending on cities all across the country and the world. It's about having more SEC tourney titles than the rest of the SEC combined.

It's about going to games in Chicago, LV, NY or wherever and being a commanding presence. It's about the house that Rupp built. It's the pageantry of it all. It's about being the winningest college basketball program of all time.

It's about having 5 coaches with a national title. It's about sustained excellence over not just decades but for over a century.

It's everything about UK basketball that keeps me here as a UK fan. Of course any season ending loss is devastating as I think we should win them all.

But those season ending losses do not define us. At least to me it doesn't. It's been a fantastic journey for my whole life and it's not over yet. There's more to come and I can't wait!!

Was Pitino's system or recruiting flawed because he only won 1 championship? (unless we are crediting 98 to him)

[Jload]

Time will tell won't it. Pitinos system was not flawed, he STARTED with a program coming of probation. And built toward an apex which we were at when he left, I believe he would have won SEVERAL more titles had he stayed here. Cal on the other hand is building very little. UK is a transient team in which the faces change on a yearly basis, no continuity ,a shadow of what it once was. I like winning but I HATE the way we are doing it,just hate it, and spare me the "I GUESS YOU WOULD RATHER HAVE BILLY G back" comments. The U.K. Basketball program I grew up loving no longer exists, we are now an NBA finishing school deluding ourselves that we are a fabled college basketball program

[BJD]

Was Pitino's system or recruiting flawed because he only won 1 championship? (unless we are crediting 98 to him)

No. But I don't think Cal's system is flawed either. You sure you are asking the right person?

As for '98, in hindsight I do credit that to Pitino. I didn't back then.

[Spiritof96]

No. But I don't think Cal's system is flawed either. You sure you are asking the right person?

As for '98, in hindsight I do credit that to Pitino. I didn't back then.

No. I intended to quote Jload.

Apologies...

[40bill]

Just seems like it was a great college game with two blue blood teams playing their hearts out, if not exceptionally well for spurts. UK lost...But if there had been a couple more free throws or one more three it would have been the Carolina crew wondering what if.

Just basketball...Sometimes it just doesn't click as well as we hoped.
Jmo....Bam and Fox became what we thought, even if Bam was swarmed after the Witchita game. Willis is what he is. Hawkins became a player to make us cheer. Monk was brilliantly inconsistent in streaks and the defensive part of the game was never his favorite. Gabriel seemed to get lost, Mulder normally struggled.

Now to see what next year and the new players bring.

[40bill]

Time will tell won't it. Pitinos system was not flawed, he STARTED with a program coming of probation. And built toward an apex which we were at when he left, I believe he would have won SEVERAL more titles had he stayed here. Cal on the other hand is building very little. UK is a transient team in which the faces change on a yearly basis, no continuity ,a shadow of what it once was. I like winning but I HATE the way we are doing it,just hate it, and spare me the "I GUESS YOU WOULD RATHER HAVE BILLY G back" comments. The U.K. Basketball program I grew up loving no longer exists, we are now an NBA finishing school deluding ourselves that we are a fabled college basketball program

I guess I'm just too old
at almost sixty I miss seeing kids develop over their time. Thanks to the NBA and the millions it pays, a lot of kids have benefitted, but it really is a new game. Kentucky isn't the only school that's changed, but they are at the forefront. Not a worse game, but definitely different.

[Matt Dillon]

Time will tell won't it. Pitinos system was not flawed, he STARTED with a program coming of probation. And built toward an apex which we were at when he left, I believe he would have won SEVERAL more titles had he stayed here. Cal on the other hand is building very little. UK is a transient team in which the faces change on a yearly basis, no continuity ,a shadow of what it once was. I like winning but I HATE the way we are doing it,just hate it, and spare me the "I GUESS YOU WOULD RATHER HAVE BILLY G back" comments. The U.K. Basketball program I grew up loving no longer exists, we are now an NBA finishing school deluding ourselves that we are a fabled college basketball program

That pretty well sums it up, in my opinion.

[KevinHall]

Gary Williams beat us in 2002 en route to the title... still stings

That was a really good Maryland team. UK had their chances in that game but Maryland was better. No shame in that loss at all.

Cal has been great here. His grand experiment has been a success. You really can't argue that. But the facts are that it took a generational type player to win it all. If another one of those comes along then he will win another one. Otherwise I don't expect another title because youth and lack of experience will catch up to you either early or late in the tournament. I suspect you could go back and look at most of the recent national champions and they either have good experience with good players or they have one of generational players. Maybe there is an exception or two but not many.

[Joneslab]

I like winning but I HATE the way we are doing it,just hate it

But this whole thread is about not winning a game.

It reminds me a little of Louisville fans and how they feel about their program.

I live in Louisville and occasionally listen to the radio shows. Here's what happens:

When they win, it's we're doing it the right way.

When they lose, they lament the fact that they don't get enough five-star players like UK.

Now, when those same people talk to UK fans it's always "At least we don't have one-and-dones and we're not selling our souls!" But if you listen to them amongst themselves, they want more one-and-dones--or at least more players with pro potential.

Kentucky fans tend to be the same but in the inverse. When we win we're doing it the right way and we love all the talent; when we lose fans tend to express disdain toward that very system and urge the coach to change it.

It's really hard to look around at college basketball and find a program that's being run like a true college program, i.e. by getting players and keeping them and winning titles. Duke is close but we saw the issues they had this year. Villanova won last year with no one-and-dones, but were back to earth this year. Kansas has a decent balance but it has yielded some disappointments in the NCAA Tournament and Self has always been criticized by their fans for not using freshmen enough.

[Westtncat]

Roy Williams said himself he recruited the same players Cal did, he just didnt get them. There is no way to recruit down. Do you seriously think you can not recruit the best? How would this take place exactly? You conclude who is too good to attend UK and skip them.?

[Dwight Schrute]

What 3? counting Memphis?

Ah crap, you're right. It's only 2 here. Still, 2 in 4 tries is pretty good.

[Joneslab]

Roy Williams said himself he recruited the same players Cal did, he just didnt get them. There is no way to recruit down. Do you seriously think you can not recruit the best? How would this take place exactly? You conclude who is too good to attend UK and skip them.?

The only way I could see it done would be that you get players, give them the opportunity to go to the NBA if they truly "succeed," but if it's clear they're borderline then you suggest they come back. Rick Pitino has done this, as has Roy Williams.

Maybe you try to treat those players in some special way so they don't have a stigma of not being a one-and-done or something in an effort to entice them to actually work to get their degree.

Cal is really big on talking about money. About college degrees he says very little.

I tend to agree with this in part because you can always get your degree, but maybe he changes the pitch a little bit and doesn't lean so hard on contracts and money and so on.

[George]

Roy Williams said himself he recruited the same players Cal did, he just didnt get them. There is no way to recruit down. Do you seriously think you can not recruit the best? How would this take place exactly? You conclude who is too good to attend UK and skip them.?

Yeah. Never understood that. Someone (maybe the above poster) made a comment a little while back about hoping to see higher-quality basketball make a return to Kentucky - the implication being that a subtraction of elite prospects in favor of longer-term players would somehow equate to better basketball.

Still waiting on someone to work that one out for me.

[Dwight Schrute]

True but it was lightning in a bottle I have trouble seeing duplicated.

Most title teams are 'lightning in a bottle.' The 96 team is the best team I've ever seen at UK in my lifetime, and it took 20 years for that level of talent to be replicated - and it still didn't yield a title. That 98 team got hot and started playing well, but it had a ton of luck along the way. The 2012 team yielded a once-in-a-generation type of talent, but that title didn't happen if Terrence Jones, DLamb, and Darius Miller don't play well.

I turned 34 earlier this month - I've seen 3 title teams in my lifetime. God willing I'll see more, but it's not something you take for granted. I have no problems with Cal's system - but things have to line up right.

[George]

The only way I could see it done would be that you get players, give them the opportunity to go to the NBA if they truly "succeed," but if it's clear they're borderline then you suggest they come back. Rick Pitino has done this, as has Roy Williams.

Maybe you try to treat those players in some special way so they don't have a stigma of not being a one-and-done or something in an effort to entice them to actually work to get their degree.

Cal is really big on talking about money. About college degrees he says very little.

I tend to agree with this in part because you can always get your degree, but maybe he changes the pitch a little bit and doesn't lean so hard on contracts and money and so on.

I think he has to stick to his guns if he wants to keep pulling in the best of the best.

Mo Bamba is a perfect example. That kid is obviously super smart in addition to being a sensational athlete; in his eyes, there's no way Kentucky could top Duke if the debate was one degree versus the other. Not saying Kentucky's a bad school, but it isn't Duke, it isn't Michigan, it's not UVA, UCLA, Texas, etc.

Like it or not, the NBA payoff is our selling point.