Trying to be realistic about the Barnhart hatred

[surveyor]

By that same token Petrino had no record of success before he took the UofL job.

He followed John L. Smith, who was Petrino before Petrino.

Certainly, but Louisville wasn't a juggernaut when they hired Cooper. As good as Howard was, he still had 5 winning seasons out of 10, 2 bowl appearances and a losing record. Cooper stalled that progress. Louisville was also in Conference USA when Petrino started. He left 2 years into the Big East, which everyone quickly realized was a sinking ship with regard to football.

He was also Jonnel's OC for one year at Louisville. Petrino had a leg up because he had NFL experience as an OC. Being the OC at the time for Auburn was also worth more than it is now.

These guys all have to start somewhere.

Sure, but starting right off in a D-1 program in a prestigious, difficult conference isn't, more often than not, the "right" somewhere.

If I were a UofL fan I'd be more than willing to give Jurich a pass for Steve Kragthorpe. As a UK fan I was willing to give Barnhart a pass for Billy Gillispie, and have said so on this board. I was okay with Joker because I could see the calculus in the move.

Agreed. I always wonder how much input Brooks had on the Joker scenario as HCIW. With Kragthorpe, I think Jurich let personal friendship with Kragthorpe affect his decision on hiring him. It did not affect his decision to fire him, however.

But now we're into a situation where it looks like our AD has left the football program in the lurch by making back-to-back poor hires, and that has to give anyone pause when it's becoming clear that we might be in the market for yet another coach very soon. I don't want Barnhart making that call.

Sure, and I doubt it will be an up and coming coordinator.

[Joneslab]

No, it wasn't.

Tom Crean has been an utter disappointment at Indiana, and the only thing saving his skin with the fanbase was their win against Kentucky.

The ENTIRE fanbase was ready to ship him out of town halfway through last season.

His results might be fine at a school that doesn't expect better; Indiana expects better, and should deserve more than what he has delivered. Let's not even talk about his creepy demeanor.

One reason they hate the hire is that they're working under the delusion that they're a basketball powerhouse.

And there's a faction at IU who hates anyone not named Bobby Knight.

It is true that Crean is an unusual guy (to put it mildly). But I maintain that he's a better coach than he's given credit for being.

[KevinHall]

No, it wasn't.

Tom Crean has been an utter disappointment at Indiana, and the only thing saving his skin with the fanbase was their win against Kentucky.

The ENTIRE fanbase was ready to ship him out of town halfway through last season.

His results might be fine at a school that doesn't expect better; Indiana expects better, and should deserve more than what he has delivered. Let's not even talk about his creepy demeanor.

IU did win the Big Ten last year so he was back in their good graces before the Kentucky win. That just help solidify him more with the fans. But if they go back this year he could be out.

[bigblue4life]

I don't remember where I read it, but I read something to the effect that Petrino practically got down on his knees and begged for the job.

This whole thing about Petrino "begging" for the UK job back in Dec 2012 is now approaching urban legend status. It's largely irrelevant because there's no way Mitch was gonna hire him. IIRC, Tennessee and Auburn had openings at the same time, they apparently didn't see fit to offer Petrino either. The ship has sailed, the train has left the station, etc. etc., and as much as it chaps our collective a$$e$ to see Louisville's success while we're floundering, it's all on Stoops and ultimately Mitch to fix it.

I thought Stoops was a solid hire at the time, but it's becoming more and more apparent he's not the man for the job. In my mind, he has the USC and Vandy games to show he can get things going in the right direction. I hope I'm wrong, but I have a bad feeling it's not going to end well for Stoops at UK.

[surveyor]

No, it wasn't.

Tom Crean has been an utter disappointment at Indiana, and the only thing saving his skin with the fanbase was their win against Kentucky.

The ENTIRE fanbase was ready to ship him out of town halfway through last season.

His results might be fine at a school that doesn't expect better; Indiana expects better, and should deserve more than what he has delivered. Let's not even talk about his creepy demeanor.

The win against Kentucky was far enough in the rear view mirror that the fanbase doesn't care about it. What saved Crean's job was the ridiculous buyout amount and the fact that they won the Big 10 regular season and ranked #9 in the coaches poll. Hard thing to do firing a coach and paying him a butt load of money after a season like that.

Based on some of the IU fans I know, I think the last successful run by Knight is such a distant memory that they're expectations have dropped with time. Knight's last 6 years at IU were worse than Crean's last 6 years.

[Matt Dillon]

The irony of all this is that, had we beaten USM, we would be sitting at 2-1(where most expected us to be after three games) and not many, if any, would be fretting over Stoops and Barnhart.

[Joneslab]

The irony of all this is that, had we beaten USM, we would be sitting at 2-1(where most expected us to be after three games) and not many, if any, would be fretting over Stoops and Barnhart.

There would definitely be a different outlook, but I think most would be savvy enough to know that our defense would still be almost shockingly inept.

If they would've hung on against Southern Miss and then went on to give up that many points to NMSU, the seed would be planted that this is a team that might not win any SEC games because of our total inability to stop anyone.

[catfaninin]

The win against Kentucky was far enough in the rear view mirror that the fanbase doesn't care about it. What saved Crean's job was the ridiculous buyout amount and the fact that they won the Big 10 regular season and ranked #9 in the coaches poll. Hard thing to do firing a coach and paying him a butt load of money after a season like that.

Based on some of the IU fans I know, I think the last successful run by Knight is such a distant memory that they're expectations have dropped with time. Knight's last 6 years at IU were worse than Crean's last 6 years.

I would disagree with "The win against Kentucky was far enough in the rear view mirror that the fanbase doesn't care about it". I live in Indiana. I can say with certainty that game will never be forgotten. A lot of their fan base places that win above any championship they have or will ever win.

[surveyor]

I would disagree with "The win against Kentucky was far enough in the rear view mirror that the fanbase doesn't care about it". I live in Indiana. I can say with certainty that game will never be forgotten. A lot of their fan base places that win above any championship they have or will ever win.

I've worked with guys who are IU alums and still long for Bobby Knight, and they never once say anything about it. Much of our clientele are Hoosier fans. The ones I know don't give a wit about the fact he beat Kentucky. He's unpopular with much of the fan base, but are resigned to the fact that as long as he's winning, he still has a job.

[boomdaddy]

Their are two sports teams that bring in money for UK. The other sports programs will not make or break the career of the AD, but the two money makers will. The contracts for the football staff, with no penalty for leaving and a huge penalty if they are fired seems very one sided to me. That is the kind of a contract that you give to a proven winner, not a first time head coach. The salaries and raises should have been tied to bowl appearances. All he has done is give them raises and extensions with no return on investment.

I am aware that there is a lot of season left, but I didn't expect it to look this bleak, this early in the year for the football team. I really don't see Stoops getting fired, if he fails to make a bowl, because of the contracts. If he fails to make a bowl, I don't see recruiting going that well, either.

[teamchemistry15]

Question: If we toss Barnhart does the buyout still stick?

[surveyor]

Question: If we toss Barnhart does the buyout still stick?

Stoops' contract is with an entity, not an individual.

[teamchemistry15]

Stoops' contract is with an entity, not an individual.

That's what I was thinking, but was hoping there was a chance.

[Old School]

Weiss was a great hire, at the time.................

Charlie Weis, Kelvin Sampson, Ken Lay, Turner Gill, Bob Nardelli, Derek Dooley, Carly Fiorina, Tim Longmeyer, Bernie Ebbers, Elizabeth Holmes, the guys who came up with New Coke, thalidomide, the Edsel and the Ford Pinto, the guy who ignored safety precautions and ordered that the Challenger be launched in spite of icing, Michael Brown at FEMA, whoever ran the Obamacare website - all great hires. You can't judge any of that in retrospect, say some posters.

[Spiritof96]

Charlie Weis, Kelvin Sampson, Ken Lay, Turner Gill, Bob Nardelli, Derek Dooley, Carly Fiorina, Tim Longmeyer, Bernie Ebbers, Elizabeth Holmes, the guys who came up with New Coke, thalidomide, the Edsel and the Ford Pinto, the guy who ignored safety precautions and ordered that the Challenger be launched in spite of icing, Michael Brown at FEMA, whoever ran the Obamacare website - all great hires. You can't judge any of that in retrospect, say some posters.

It is less that, than the fact that "head football coach" is a highly speculative deal. Qualified candidates more often than not fail. When they fail, does that mean the hiring official did something wrong and should be let go?