Trying to be realistic about the Barnhart hatred

[Lighthouse]

With all due respect, teamchemistry15, I must disagree. In my opinion, football and men's bb are what defines an AD's sucess or failure. Other than family and close friends, how many people do you think really care how many championships the cheer leading squad win, or the archery team or the rifle team. I know there's significantly more interest in baseball, softball and women's bb than the others I mentioned, but even those are way down on the totem pole from fb & men's bb.

And with all due respect, I must disagree with the above. Barnhart is Athletic Director for The University of Kentucky and therefore is responsible for all participating teams. I, as a Kentucky Fan take pride in every Kentucky team that wins a Championship or comes close, because all those athletes spend as much time honing their skill in their sport as the BB and FB teams do, and most of them pay tuition like regular students or are on only partial scholarships. I agree that FB and BB pays the bills for the equipment and most athletic trips.

[KCKUKFan]

Barnhart has done some good things with facilities.

but he has made some unforgivably stupid decisions with regards to hires and extensions.

Add to to that his curt and condescending manner with the critical fans, and I'd argue that his tenure has been a failure.

[40bill]

Mitch B has made in jmo three bad contractual deals. The first was the notorious contract on a napkin for CBG. The second was a raise for CMS BEFORE he took a team to a bowl, followed by another contract extension with a ridiculous buyout clause that in some way set New standards for handcuffing an institution.

[40bill]

Barnhart has done some good things with facilities.

but he has made some unforgivably stupid decisions with regards to hires and extensions.

Add to to that his curt and condescending manner with the critical fans, and I'd argue that his tenure has been a failure.

To be fair, SOME small minority of the fan base can be so passionate their critiques can border on off kilter....to rude and borderline threatening. Not sure that I wouldn't occasionally snap to those criticisms myself.

[SBCatMan]

Barnhart's decisions -- with the probable exception of hiring Gillispie -- looked good at the time. When Joker was made "coach in waiting" it was a rather bizarre concept, but a creative one, too. Our memories are short, but at the time Joker was a hot commodity -- coming off some BIG wins -- including the upset of LSU, not to mention wins over Clemson, FSU, Auburn and a couple over Georgia. In hindsight, that was a HORRIBLE hire, but at the time, we certainly did not want to lose Joker and we did not want to push Brooks out the door. Barnhart did what he had to do.

The extension with Stoops was premature, and, in hindsight, perhaps disastrous. But, while the move was extreme and excessive, remember that after year two NONE of us wanted to risk losing Stoops.

Football at UK is a tough row to hoe. But just take a look around. Look at the unprecedented success of all of our programs, from Track & Field to Volleyball to Softball to Basketball -- both Men & Women. The facilities upgrades are EVERYWHERE. Barnhart has also negotiated some very sweet media deals -- including radio deals in the city of Louisville.

I would argue that Barnhart's tenure has been an overwhelming success. He has brought UK Athletics out of the Dark Ages and has made us a respected member of the SEC.

You could argue otherwise, and, while I would disagree, I would certainly respect your opinion. You are all entitled to your thought process and I acknowledge that much. However, I would NEVER use the word "hatred" with regards to Barnhart, nor would I respect the opinion of anyone who did. (I realize that is the usage of that term is NOT the opinion of the OP, but just an expression of a perception with regards to a certain portion of the fan base.)

[Matt Dillon]

I certainly don't hate Mitch, nor anyone for that matter. I do feel he's dropped the ball, a few times, where UK's two major sports are concerned.

[Brasslock]

I have to put myself on the plus side with regard to Barnhart after starting deep on the minus side for the reasons SB and Lighthouse brought up. I appreciate excellence across the board whether it's found in ballet or a pancake block. Joker was a super person and I felt the pain watching his teams but Joker contributed to getting our facilities significantly upgraded. It is a wonder we were able to recruit anyone with a recruiting facility consisting of a corner with folding chairs and a projection screen. I also remember Brooks not using a practice field because it was in such bad shape it put our players at risk. I am not ready to give up on Stoops. I was going to give him four years. The fourth year is not over.

[Joneslab]

The facilities thing is the only issue that's keeping Barnhart employed.

As far as hiring coaches he's been disastrous. Outside of places like Rutgers and Boston College, I'm not sure you could find another AD who's had such a monumental issue hiring major-sport coaches in the BCS.

You've had unmitigated disasters (Gillispie), coach-in-waiting quagmires (Joker), and now just an out-and-out mistake, which is what the Stoops era looks like so far.

I've always liked Barnhart, but now we're possibly looking at a solid decade of football program futility after Rich Brooks. Many of us said that we couldn't do this again after Joker, and I think we're heading toward a very similar situation this season with this team.

I'm not totally for his firing, but I also don't want him being around when the next coach is brought on. The trust is gone.

[KevinHall]

All I will ask is "Do you trust Barnhart to make the next coaching hire in football or basketball?" My vote is no. He has two disaster hires and another one in the making. If it comes to the point of firing Stoops then the AD has to go too. He can't make another critical hire in the two most prominent sports for UK that makes the money for the entire athletic department.

[J.Jennings]

I dont think it matters. If people think that Petrino to UK would equal would U of L has now I think they would be wrong. Jesus might be our only hope.

I fully disagree, Petrino is a great coach like him or not, he wins everywhere he goes. Anyone who's ever been around Petrino will tell you he's a bona fine A hole, same can be said for Saban. Still, the man can coach and let's be honest, Charlie Strong did Louisville fans a favor by leaving for Texas........

[SBCatMan]

"You've had unmitigated disasters (Gillispie), coach-in-waiting quagmires (Joker), and now just an out-and-out mistake, which is what the Stoops era looks like so far."

1) Gillispie was a disaster. No question about it. No argument here.

2) Joker and the "coach in waiting." Yes, that was messy. And, in hindsight, and utter disaster. But, at the time, Joker was an OUSTANDING OC and NO ONE wanted to lose him. It was greatly feared that other programs would be after him as an HC. Brooks was on the brink of retirement. Barnhart got creative -- yes, it was sloppy, but creative -- rolled the dice, and lost.

3) As I said a few posts earlier, the Stoops extension was an over-step and the kind of mistake that should not have been made. I will grant you that. But, I will NOT criticize Barnhart for the hire. Stoops was HOT!! The entire BBN praised the hire. We were ALL excited about Stoops. Barnhart was viewed as a near genius. It would certainly seem that is NOT working out, but the blame for that cannot be placed on Barnhart. Sure, Petrino was available, but ... a SIGNIFICANT portion of the fan base opposed that hire. (Yes, I know there were also many who would have accepted it.) And, there is no evidence to say Petrino would have come here, even if offered. (BTW, I do not think any of the other coaches available at the time have sustained any degree of success, including Mike Leach, or Sonny Dykes, or the guy who went to Colorado who's name escapes me.)

[Joneslab]

You can't use hindsight with Barnhart at this point. Too many bridges burned.

You could use the same kind of logic with coaches. Matt Elam, for instance: that looked like a great signing. Stole him from Alabama, etc.

But when you stack up a few Elam-type cases, then you begin to wonder if Stoops and his staff are great evaluators of talent. Because I think people get wrapped up in stars too much when the most important thing is being able to look at a high school player and envisioning how he'd fit in on your team. (And then motivating him once he's on the team, another thing Stoops and staff seem to struggle with.)

Once you stack up a few hiring blunders, you get a picture of Barnhart that he's for whatever reason not able to assess coaching talent before the fact. It doesn't matter that the coach was "hot" at the time. Billy Gillispie was hot at the time. He's the guy I wanted.

That's beside the point. You can only go on what happened at this point with Barnhart and not what might have happened.

[Owllycat]

With all due respect, teamchemistry15, I must disagree. In my opinion, football and men's bb are what defines an AD's sucess or failure. Other than family and close friends, how many people do you think really care how many championships the cheer leading squad win, or the archery team or the rifle team. I know there's significantly more interest in baseball, softball and women's bb than the others I mentioned, but even those are way down on the totem pole from fb & men's bb.

I agree with what you said. Looking at all of our others teams, not much is ever talked about. They always seem to pick the top ones like football, basketball, baseball. You ask anyone about how the cheerleaders did and its oh did you see that match. Then when they are talked about, for example basketball is not just basketball, its mens basketball. There seems to be a big gap when it comes to mens and womens teams, mens teams are talked about more than womens.

[Joneslab]

^ Of course having said all that we're only 3 games in. As Brasslock says, there's still time.

This looks like a really poor football team though. A defense that's almost shockingly bad.

But say it ends up the way it looks like it's going to. 2-10? Four years in? After the mistake Joker ended up being? With this ridiculous buyout Barnhart gave Stoops? With your arch-rival possibly making a national champion run.

You have to fire Barnhart, don't you?

[teamchemistry15]

^ Of course having said all that we're only 3 games in. As Brasslock says, there's still time.

This looks like a really poor football team though. A defense that's almost shockingly bad.

But say it ends up the way it looks like it's going to. 2-10? Four years in? After the mistake Joker ended up being? With this ridiculous buyout Barnhart gave Stoops? With your arch-rival possibly making a national champion run.

You have to fire Barnhart, don't you?

At that point I don't see anyway around it.