Olympics

[Spiritof96]

More often than not, steroid use increases the chance of injury - particularly with regard to connective tissue such as ligaments and tendons. One of the reasons is the increase in muscle strength outpaces the increase in connective tissue strength. Steroids were designed to quicken rehab time decades ago. Now, more often than not with elite athletes, you see injuries that result from suspected use, not the other way around.

This is not necessarily the case. Over use may lead to increased injury, but not PEDs generally. If you look at the best of the best, injury rates are remarkably low.

[Spiritof96]

Depends on what you mean by "pharmaceuticals." Pain killers? Weed? You're probably right in that case. I don't think what we think of as "steroids" have played a role in every athletic feat. You could tell LeBron James was going to be a freakazoid when he was fourteen years old. Tim Tebow. Bryce Harper. There are athletes who are just physically and genetically superior.

I do believe a case can be made that steroids maybe should be legal if they don't hurt the person's body.

The steroid era in baseball was highly entertaining. Giving these guys access to non-threatening chemicals to enhance their ability is an interesting way to think about the future of sports.

Of course even if they were able to do it some would find ways to do it better.

If you think LaBron isn't on, I have a bridge to sell you at a bargain price.

[surveyor]

This is not necessarily the case. Over use may lead to increased injury, but not PEDs generally. If you look at the best of the best, injury rates are remarkably low.

Certainly, but "overuse" can vary depending on the individual. Plenty of bodybuilders have careers without injury, while numerous others do. I think some of the connective tissue injuries in football (that don't involve direct impact on the joint) are suspiciously related to PED use. Torn biceps, torn pectoral muscles, achilles ruptures, patellar tendon ruptures.

In this instance, I'm referring strictly to PEDs which increase strength and mass.

[Joneslab]

If you think LaBron isn't on, I have a bridge to sell you at a bargain price.

Really don't think LeBron is on steroids.

I saw him up close when he was fourteen or fifteen. He was a towering presence even then.

Unless it would be for the sake of playing through the long season or something, these basketball players don't really need steroids. It isn't a sport like baseball or football where colossal, brute power is necessary. Also the edge that you can get in basketball is different than swimming or track or cycling, where you're talking tenths of seconds.

[surveyor]

I do believe there are a few athletes who are simply gifted genetic specimens. LeBron would be in that camp when he was younger. Matured physically at an early age.

I wouldn't doubt that he's supplementing in order to maintain an edge. He's 31 now and has given his body a beating.

[Spiritof96]

Really don't think LeBron is on steroids.

I saw him up close when he was fourteen or fifteen. He was a towering presence even then.

Unless it would be for the sake of playing through the long season or something, these basketball players don't really need steroids. It isn't a sport like baseball or football where colossal, brute power is necessary. Also the edge that you can get in basketball is different than swimming or track or cycling, where you're talking tenths of seconds.

You don't understand how PEDs work. Generally, they allow an athlete to recover more quickly, endure more training/competition intensity, and endure more training/competition volume. They also help an athlete heal from injury more quickly. They make someone who is willing to work longer and harder, capable of doing so.

Every athlete in every sport stands to benefit from that. Brute power is only the outcome if that is the training emphasis. LaBron's success in particular is the based largely on being bigger, faster, stronger. (and more durable) I am not saying that juice made him what he is; but that it is a component of his success. Just like Manning, Clements, Pettitte, Armstrong etc.

[Joneslab]

Every athlete in every sport stands to benefit from that. Brute power is only the outcome if that is the training emphasis. LaBron's success in particular is the based largely on being bigger, faster, stronger. (and more durable) I am not saying that juice made him what he is; but that it is a component of his success. Just like Manning, Clements, Pettitte, Armstrong etc.

This is all highly debatable. Just stating it as if it's a fact doesn't make it so.

I'd have to see some proof to buy it, mainly because there have been other athletes in the sport of basketball who have come along and have used their exquisite, terrifying size to help make them great. That's not specific to LeBron James, nor is it specific to this generation. It's been happening for seventy-five years in the sport of basketball, and I think LeBron *might* be an example of a sort of evolutionary jump the same way Chamberlain and in some ways Bird and Magic were.

Thing is, LeBron happens to have an incredible skillset. He's one of the greatest passers who has ever played the game. He handles the ball like a point guard. All of that plus his size has helped to make him a superstar.

[KevinHall]

You don't understand how PEDs work. Generally, they allow an athlete to recover more quickly, endure more training/competition intensity, and endure more training/competition volume. They also help an athlete heal from injury more quickly. They make someone who is willing to work longer and harder, capable of doing so.

Every athlete in every sport stands to benefit from that. Brute power is only the outcome if that is the training emphasis. LaBron's success in particular is the based largely on being bigger, faster, stronger. (and more durable) I am not saying that juice made him what he is; but that it is a component of his success. Just like Manning, Clements, Pettitte, Armstrong etc.

Every athlete that has taken steroids has not come out a superstar or even better at their sport. Every year in baseball you hear of guys that have been busted for taking steroids and you say they should be asking for a refund because it didn't help them. Every human being is different. Some by taking steroids do increase their production and the time they can play the sport. Barry Bonds is example A of this. I think many do not. One thing we do not know yet is the long term effects of taking these drugs in mass quantity like Bonds and Mark McGuire did. Many of these early users are about my age and it will be interesting to see what ailments these guys get as they older. I suspect there will some sort of hormonal cancer that will come about but right now we just don't know. Also there are some injuries that are known to have been steroid caused. There have been pitchers in MLB or the minor leagues who have literally had the flesh and muscle come off the bone. Every time this has happened they have been a known steroid user. So things can happen to steroid users its just different for everyone and how their bodies react to it.
I have no idea if Lebron uses it or not. His body build would give you suspicion that he does but as others have stated there are athletic freaks who may have the looks but never touched the stuff. I tend not to worry about whether a player uses or not anymore. I just let the leagues or governing bodies worry about it and tell me if they do or not.

[Joneslab]

One major difference in LeBron and the players Spiritof96 mentioned is that there were rumors about so many of the baseball players of that era. This is what makes Ken Griffey, Jr. so remarkable--the fact that he wasn't ever in the rumor mill but put up insane numbers right through the steroid era. I believe he was the same kind of genetic freakazoid LeBron is.

Lance Armstrong was surrounded by rumors for more than a decade.

You don't hear the same stuff about LeBron, and a player with that much clout and celebrity would have to be constantly dogged by detractors. Ask Calipari how it goes when you're sitting up on the pedestal. If he is dirty I'm sure there are a lot of people looking and digging.

[Spiritof96]

This is all highly debatable. Just stating it as if it's a fact doesn't make it so.

I'd have to see some proof to buy it, mainly because there have been other athletes in the sport of basketball who have come along and have used their exquisite, terrifying size to help make them great. That's not specific to LeBron James, nor is it specific to this generation. It's been happening for seventy-five years in the sport of basketball, and I think LeBron *might* be an example of a sort of evolutionary jump the same way Chamberlain and in some ways Bird and Magic were.

Thing is, LeBron happens to have an incredible skillset. He's one of the greatest passers who has ever played the game. He handles the ball like a point guard. All of that plus his size has helped to make him a superstar.

What is highly debatable? Not the how PEDs work part and not who can benefit either.

If you want to think LBJ is au naturale fine. But there have been rumors... Remember the Miami vacation and in season return of explosive power muscle mass gain?

[Spiritof96]

Every athlete that has taken steroids has not come out a superstar or even better at their sport.

No one is arguing that this is the case.

The long term effects are an on going point of research and there is an elevated risk of prostate cancer in men who use certain testosterone treatment. The long term affects aren't that unknown.

[Joneslab]

Remember the Miami vacation and in season return of explosive power muscle mass gain?

Bill Simmons is that you?

I wouldn't take what Simmons said about anyone to heart (and I like Simmons). But he's thrown so much stuff out about so many people that you would have to dig through it all with a shovel...including John Calipari.

And I'm not a LeBron apologist. I only watch him in the Playoffs. But this is a guy who was a dominant force of nature in his teens. At 20 years old he was already becoming a dominant NBA player. Maybe he needed that "Miami vacation" to heal his injuries or something, but I don't think he needed it to in any way help his game. His skillset is so rare--historically rare. You could see those skills when he was a little boy.

[KevinHall]

No one is arguing that this is the case.

The long term effects are an on going point of research and there is an elevated risk of prostate cancer in men who use certain testosterone treatment. The long term affects aren't that unknown.

Just pointing out that while they may nor suffer effects now, later they likely will. Yes that one you said is known. Also impotency is a known one as well.

[Spiritof96]

Bill Simmons is that you?

I wouldn't take what Simmons said about anyone to heart (and I like Simmons). But he's thrown so much stuff out about so many people that you would have to dig through it all with a shovel...including John Calipari.

And I'm not a LeBron apologist. I only watch him in the Playoffs. But this is a guy who was a dominant force of nature in his teens. At 20 years old he was already becoming a dominant NBA player. Maybe he needed that "Miami vacation" to heal his injuries or something, but I don't think he needed it to in any way help his game. His skillset is so rare--historically rare. You could see those skills when he was a little boy.

It isn't a skill driven question. There were scores of columns written about his weight loss pre season and the subsequent lack of explosiveness in his game. As for Simmons the guy has spent at least a modicum of time both talking to NBA insiders AND doing a little education on PEDs...

Also Ray Lewis was healed by God and deer antler spray...

[KevinHall]

The US men pulled off a win against the Aussies yesterday. They were behind at halftime. But used a 9-0 run to start the 2nd half to propel them to a a deceiving 10 point win. The Aussies shot out their mind the 1st half. IIRC, they shot 64% from the field. They played really hard and certainly weren't intimidated of the US. They do have five NBA players on their team. Wouldn't surprise me if the US meets them again in the medal round. I think in the 4th quarter only Irving and Anthony scored for the US. The Aussies just couldn't do anything with those two.