Since Im snowed in today lets just make some stuff up.

[KCKUKFan]

You know, this thread made me think about Alex Poythress a little differently.

The big knock on Alex is that he has all the potential in the world, is very skilled, has a great body and worlds of talent. He just doesn't have a killer mentality or motor to match it.

Part of me wonders if Alex's natural "talent" is a little exaggerated by us, based on one game in his freshman year (Duke) and his high school ranking. Plus, he's a great kid who we want to see succeed. Could it be that he's just an average player who has good games from time to time because he takes what the defense gives him. He's not a very good shooter, he struggles to finish around the basket, he plays below the rim, and he allows interior players to get in good position far too often. Much of this might be a mental thing, sure, but sometimes I wonder if we're placing labels on him that he just doesn't deserve.

It's not a popular opinion, but this season has made me wonder if Alex really is as talented as we always say. When will he "turn it on"? Maybe he just doesn't have "it" to turn on.

[J.Jennings]

Poythress is right there. Antwain Barbour definitely. Dawg Carruth. And Jason Parker...man, if he hadn't have blown his knee out wrestling with Marvin Stone.

And in the NBA Jamal Mashburn always comes to mind for me. Was such a transcendent player at UK but injuries--and maybe sickle-cell anemia--took away some of his greatness.

I was going to say Jason Parker, he had good year his limited time at Kentucky.

[J.Jennings]

So many but if we are talking about next level talent that never really panned out or became a Nba star, Mercer comes to mind but so does Azubuike. I thought Azubuikes size,strength, athleticism, and shooting would have served his 225 frame well at the next level.

Don't forget about D. Lamb, in think hes a bust as well.

[KCKUKFan]

So many but if we are talking about next level talent that never really panned out or became a Nba star, Mercer comes to mind but so does Azubuike. I thought Azubuikes size,strength, athleticism, and shooting would have served his 225 frame well at the next level.

Don't forget about D. Lamb, in think hes a bust as well.

Azubuike was having a stellar NBA career until his injury. He never was the same; it took away a lot of his athleticism and he never recovered.

Doron Lamb's problem was not talent. The NBA can always use volume shooters, especially in today's game. He didn't work very hard at the next level and was apparently quite immature.

[J.Jennings]

Dare I say Daniel Orton? He had the size, he had the body, he just needed some time.

I think my main one is Randolph Morris. He definitely had the talent and potential but it didn't click to make him dominant like he could have been.

He dominates in China and the moneys so good, i think hes fine playing there.

[Bombastic Blue]

I like Tubby Smith. I like his Wooden like approach to the game. Having said that I am not surprised by the number of "Tubby" players on this thread. If he had developed players better he might still be here.

[Joneslab]

I like Tubby Smith. I like his Wooden like approach to the game. Having said that I am not surprised by the number of "Tubby" players on this thread. If he had developed players better he might still be here.

Tubby developed players fine. He just couldn't--or wouldn't--recruit at a high level.

Players generally develop on their own. The staff can give them confidence, put them in the right spots, make sure they have the right training regimen. But players have to put in work on their own time.

I can think of a bunch of Tubby's players who improved radically from their freshman to senior years. Erik Daniels went from a project to a star. Gerald Fitch. Cliff Hawkins. Marquis Estill.

List goes on. But the Tubby era started to deathspiral when he began to bring in guys you'd never heard of and missed out on almost every blue chip recruit.

[Joneslab]

You know, this thread made me think about Alex Poythress a little differently.

The big knock on Alex is that he has all the potential in the world, is very skilled, has a great body and worlds of talent. He just doesn't have a killer mentality or motor to match it.

Part of me wonders if Alex's natural "talent" is a little exaggerated by us, based on one game in his freshman year (Duke) and his high school ranking. Plus, he's a great kid who we want to see succeed. Could it be that he's just an average player who has good games from time to time because he takes what the defense gives him. He's not a very good shooter, he struggles to finish around the basket, he plays below the rim, and he allows interior players to get in good position far too often. Much of this might be a mental thing, sure, but sometimes I wonder if we're placing labels on him that he just doesn't deserve.

It's not a popular opinion, but this season has made me wonder if Alex really is as talented as we always say. When will he "turn it on"? Maybe he just doesn't have "it" to turn on.

I think what people mean when they talk about "talent" sometimes is mostly about their athleticism.

So I kind of agree with you. Poythress has always gotten the "he's so talented!" label, but I think what we mean when we say that is "he should be talented." He has the body. The athleticism. The power. But in terms of just fundamentals and skill, Poythress has always been just average. And of course he doesn't have that killer mentality the great players almost always have.

[Spiritof96]

I think what people mean when they talk about "talent" sometimes is mostly about their athleticism.

So I kind of agree with you. Poythress has always gotten the "he's so talented!" label, but I think what we mean when we say that is "he should be talented." He has the body. The athleticism. The power. But in terms of just fundamentals and skill, Poythress has always been just average. And of course he doesn't have that killer mentality the great players almost always have.

Raw athleticism combined with kinesthetic sense IS talent. One might consider the innate ability to see the court or have a feel for the game as another factor; but without A + KS, feel for the game or vision gets you bupkis. Also having athleticism OR kinesthetic sense alone won't get you very far. (Jules Camara ring a bell?)

Skill is acquired from practice and kinesthetic sense will determine how quickly and easily one acquires skill.

Alex is a 1% in the human race for talent; but his KS is the weaker half of the equation from him and as a result he isn't a terribly skilled player. That doesn't mean he isn't amazingly talented. He can be a contributing NBA player just flying over all over the court, rebounding, filling the lane, and defending. (If he stays focused on playing hard)

Jay Bilas said as much on the recent Matt Jones podcast.

[Joneslab]

Alex is a 1% in the human race for talent

No, I think he's 1% in athleticism.

Guy can't dribble. Only a decent shooter. Doesn't understand angles hardly at all. And really, he's a tweener.

Talent has to be the combination of athletic ability and skill. Davis, Wall, Cousins, Lamb, Knight, Jones, Booker, Ulis, and a bunch of other guys who've come through here...those guys were insanely "talented." All those guys had the requisite combination of skill and athletic ability to consistently have a hand in whether we won or lost basketball games.

Alex Poythress has potential and because of his athletic ability and strength can dominate a game every now and then, but IMO he isn't super talented at all.

[Spiritof96]

No, I think he's 1% in athleticism.

Guy can't dribble. Only a decent shooter. Doesn't understand angles hardly at all. And really, he's a tweener.

Talent has to be the combination of athletic ability and skill. Davis, Wall, Cousins, Lamb, Knight, Jones, Booker, Ulis, and a bunch of other guys who've come through here...those guys were insanely "talented." All those guys had the requisite combination of skill and athletic ability to consistently have a hand in whether we won or lost basketball games.

Alex Poythress has potential and because of his athletic ability and strength can dominate a game every now and then, but IMO he isn't super talented at all.

Sill is acquired. Talent is innate. They are different but related things.

[teamchemistry15]

He dominates in China and the moneys so good, i think hes fine playing there.

When you say he is dominating in China all I see is "not good enough to stay in the NBA." I am not saying he isn't making a good living just saying he had more potential than what he has turned in to.

[Westtncat]

[QUOTE=Will Lavender;n59102]

No, I think he's 1% in athleticism.

Guy can't dribble. Only a decent shooter. Doesn't understand angles hardly at all. And really, he's a tweener.

I think what you are saying is skill not athleticism. You could take Ray Lewis or David Beckham on a basketball court and they would do worse than Alex Poythress in all these areas but they are still tremendous athletes. Just like Michael Jordan couldn't play baseball but I would never say Jordan was not an athlete. I think there are athletes and then there are skilled BB players. Alex is a hell of an athlete, which I think is measured in speed, agility, strength, vertical, even quickness which is slightly different than just overall speed.

I would say on the opposite end of he scale, Doran Lamb wasn't the worlds greatest athlete but was a heck of a BB player.