Is Pope's Ceiling the Sweet Sixteen?

[blueheretic]

Agreed.

But after a while it grows stale, especially when your answer basically falls on deaf ears.

I've agreed with much of what you've said.

I'm not going to simply agree with an idea or thought process that i think is wrong.

[bucsrule8872]

I've agreed with much of what you've said.

I'm not going to simply agree with an idea or thought process that i think is wrong.

I can respect that.

But you should respect that I feel the same way about my train of thought.

You’re not changing my mind by saying the same things over and over and over again.

So let’s move on.

[blueheretic]

I can respect that.

But you should respect that I feel the same way about my train of thought.

You’re not changing my mind by saying the same things over and over and over again.

So let’s move on.

I am cool with a right to opinions and to express opinion. I may not respect those opinions. Then again, I might.

Doesn't mean that I'm not going to argue with you and try to bring you to the true religion. lol

[Matt Dillon]

I can respect that.

But you should respect that I feel the same way about my train of thought.

You’re not changing my mind by saying the same things over and over and over again.

So let’s move on.

One of the most sensible posts I've read. Instead of playing "verbal tennis" why not just agree to disagree and move on to something more productive.

[bthaunert]

Agree if thing keep going same way he is gone year 3. As of right now he is depending on the portal to win. Not sure you can do that. He seems to not worry too much about high school kids. Now if you could get the best of the best out of the portal you might pull together an elite eight team but not sure portal players can get you over the hump to the final four. If Pope keeps all the players that can be back next year minus JQ, then pick up some shooters he might have a shot at going deeper. Problem is right now I dont think he can keep the guys he has for another year. Hope I am wrong but we will be down to 3 or 4 guys again with Pope having to rebuild a ton. If that is the case then he will fail quickly again.

The game has changed drastically over the last few years. Depending heavily on the portal and keeping guys around, who are not top recruits, for multiple years is the way to win. Not depending on big time freshman recruits. Look at last years Final Four:

Florida
ZERO top 100 recruits on their roster
4 of their 5 starters were from the portal

Houston
Highest ranked HS recruit they had was ranked 41st in their class
Their starting line-up was 2 portal guys, a 4th year junior who spent his career at Houston, a 6th year senior who spent his entire career at Houston and a sophomore that played both years at Houston

Auburn
TWO top 100 guys out of HS on their roster - 28th and 61st ranked players in their class
4 of their 5 starters were from the portal

Duke
5 top 25 ranked HS players on their roster - 1 being a generational talent
4 of 5 starters were recruited to Duke

So, 3 of those 4 teams relied completely on transfers and veteran guys.
In 2024, UCONN had 1 top 35 recruit on their roster; Purdue had zero top 35 recruits; Bama's top recruit on the roster was ranked 40th; and NC State had 1 top 50 guy on their roster.
In 2023, UCONN had o top 35 recruits on their roster; SDSU's top ranked player was 75th out of HS; FAU had 0 top 100 recruits; and Miami had 0 top 50 guys on their roster.

The importance of getting top talent from the HS ranks means less and less, but, you also have to get guys from the portal who are not 1 year rentals. That's a huge key.

[Pobilly]

The game has changed drastically over the last few years. Depending heavily on the portal and keeping guys around, who are not top recruits, for multiple years is the way to win. Not depending on big time freshman recruits. Look at last years Final Four:

Florida
ZERO top 100 recruits on their roster
4 of their 5 starters were from the portal

Houston
Highest ranked HS recruit they had was ranked 41st in their class
Their starting line-up was 2 portal guys, a 4th year junior who spent his career at Houston, a 6th year senior who spent his entire career at Houston and a sophomore that played both years at Houston

Auburn
TWO top 100 guys out of HS on their roster - 28th and 61st ranked players in their class
4 of their 5 starters were from the portal

Duke
5 top 25 ranked HS players on their roster - 1 being a generational talent
4 of 5 starters were recruited to Duke

So, 3 of those 4 teams relied completely on transfers and veteran guys.
In 2024, UCONN had 1 top 35 recruit on their roster; Purdue had zero top 35 recruits; Bama's top recruit on the roster was ranked 40th; and NC State had 1 top 50 guy on their roster.
In 2023, UCONN had o top 35 recruits on their roster; SDSU's top ranked player was 75th out of HS; FAU had 0 top 100 recruits; and Miami had 0 top 50 guys on their roster.

The importance of getting top talent from the HS ranks means less and less, but, you also have to get guys from the portal who are not 1 year rentals. That's a huge key.

I like the data, problem none of those are Pope and UK.
We are the team even if we have not won anything in 15 years, that everyone loves to beat (like UNC/Kansas/Duke), we are the hunted.

You have to have guys ready to have to prove themselves each and every possession. So far this year that has been one of the main issues, and injuries.
Pope, his coaches and then the team needs attitude adjustment when it comes to having to play like you are the hunted. Totally different mindset and Pope is playing with the mindset of BYU / Utah valley state hunting for the big win. We are starting to see much better attitude and play but it has taken a long time to get there and we probably have a long way to go. We seem to slip back into old habits.

[Matt Dillon]

The game has changed drastically over the last few years. Depending heavily on the portal and keeping guys around, who are not top recruits, for multiple years is the way to win. Not depending on big time freshman recruits. Look at last years Final Four:

Florida
ZERO top 100 recruits on their roster
4 of their 5 starters were from the portal

Houston
Highest ranked HS recruit they had was ranked 41st in their class
Their starting line-up was 2 portal guys, a 4th year junior who spent his career at Houston, a 6th year senior who spent his entire career at Houston and a sophomore that played both years at Houston

Auburn
TWO top 100 guys out of HS on their roster - 28th and 61st ranked players in their class
4 of their 5 starters were from the portal

Duke
5 top 25 ranked HS players on their roster - 1 being a generational talent
4 of 5 starters were recruited to Duke

So, 3 of those 4 teams relied completely on transfers and veteran guys.
In 2024, UCONN had 1 top 35 recruit on their roster; Purdue had zero top 35 recruits; Bama's top recruit on the roster was ranked 40th; and NC State had 1 top 50 guy on their roster.
In 2023, UCONN had o top 35 recruits on their roster; SDSU's top ranked player was 75th out of HS; FAU had 0 top 100 recruits; and Miami had 0 top 50 guys on their roster.

The importance of getting top talent from the HS ranks means less and less, but, you also have to get guys from the portal who are not 1 year rentals. That's a huge key.

This is the reason I'm not wringing my hands over the fact that we don't have any Fr. signed for the upcoming season.

[bthaunert]

I like the data, problem none of those are Pope and UK.
We are the team even if we have not won anything in 15 years, that everyone loves to beat (like UNC/Kansas/Duke), we are the hunted.

You have to have guys ready to have to prove themselves each and every possession. So far this year that has been one of the main issues, and injuries.
Pope, his coaches and then the team needs attitude adjustment when it comes to having to play like you are the hunted. Totally different mindset and Pope is playing with the mindset of BYU / Utah valley state hunting for the big win. We are starting to see much better attitude and play but it has taken a long time to get there and we probably have a long way to go. We seem to slip back into old habits.

You specifically stated, "As of right now he is depending on the portal to win. Not sure you can do that. He seems to not worry too much about high school kids. Now if you could get the best of the best out of the portal you might pull together an elite eight team but not sure portal players can get you over the hump to the final four."

That's just a bad take imo. Everything out there proves that thought process wrong. 5 years ago? sure. Now? No, the game has changed. Florida literally just won a national championship by putting out 4 high quality transfers and a second year player they signed out of high school. It doesn't matter that none of the teams weren't Pope and UK.

He absolutely has to have better roster construction, but that starts with having the right high quality portal guys who can play more than 1 year and bringing up guys through the system like Malachi, who weren't top 20 recruits. Do we need to bring in HS players? yes. But, do we need to bring in top level recruits to win in today's college basketball? Absolutely not. That's just a fact regardless if you're Kentucky or Monmouth.

[Pobilly]

You specifically stated, "As of right now he is depending on the portal to win. Not sure you can do that. He seems to not worry too much about high school kids. Now if you could get the best of the best out of the portal you might pull together an elite eight team but not sure portal players can get you over the hump to the final four."

That's just a bad take imo. Everything out there proves that thought process wrong. 5 years ago? sure. Now? No, the game has changed. Florida literally just won a national championship by putting out 4 high quality transfers and a second year player they signed out of high school. It doesn't matter that none of the teams weren't Pope and UK.

He absolutely has to have better roster construction, but that starts with having the right high quality portal guys who can play more than 1 year and bringing up guys through the system like Malachi, who weren't top 20 recruits. Do we need to bring in HS players? yes. But, do we need to bring in top level recruits to win in today's college basketball? Absolutely not. That's just a fact regardless if you're Kentucky or Monmouth.

I get you think my take is a bad take, but it is my take till he proves me wrong. He gets this team to final 4 this year, he proves it. He wins it all next year with mainly portal guys, he proves it. My take is and will be at KENTUCKY (NOT ANY OTHER TEAM), as of now you cannot do it with the portal players that Pope is going after. Look at Michigan (they paid well in the portal and bought the right dudes). For some reason they can play in Ann Arbor but are not made for KENTUCKY - kentucky aint for everybody. Maybe that is my main point. He is fishing for Marlins with a Crappie pole.

[Pobilly]

Or better yet, grade out the portal additions for KENTUCKY. First Jelavic is not portal, Moreno and Johnson are freshman.
Williams - out injured - was a bust early on and started coming on as of late before the injury
Mo D - to me has been a bust. Good but not what Pope thought he would be
Lowe - Injury bust - just bad luck or did UK pass up other PG and select the wrong guy.
Aberdeen - quality addition and is getting better throughout the year
JQ - took a chance - paid the bucks - would have been better for UK if they took a different guy.
Hawthorne - Redshirt with unknown injury now so probably keeps redshirt. Could work out next year and could possibly be a starter.
Potter - Redshirt and could work out as a reserve next year

Portal guys with only 2 helping the team this year. That makes the portal a failure for 2025-2026 season so far.

Now replace the 5 guys with guys that came for a visit and we got the Kentucky is not for everyone excuse when we missed. Heck add 1 of those high end guys and we are probably talking about a team with 3 losses instead of losses.

Year 1 portal class with injuries was way more productive.

Portal is the most roll of the dice thing that Pope seems to be doing. Last year he got system guys. this year he went for toughness and other things. might just be the learning curve being at KENTUCKY. This off season he needs to make some home run hits in the portal and or freshman guys. Hope he can keep our core group of returning guys but doubt he keeps all. Heck doubt any team keeps all their guys ever again, not a Pope or UK thing there.

[WeWant9]

I get you think my take is a bad take, but it is my take till he proves me wrong. He gets this team to final 4 this year, he proves it. He wins it all next year with mainly portal guys, he proves it. My take is and will be at KENTUCKY (NOT ANY OTHER TEAM), as of now you cannot do it with the portal players that Pope is going after. Look at Michigan (they paid well in the portal and bought the right dudes). For some reason they can play in Ann Arbor but are not made for KENTUCKY - kentucky aint for everybody. Maybe that is my main point. He is fishing for Marlins with a Crappie pole.

This is why I hope we bring in a GM who can solely focus on NIL evaluations and negotiations. There have been recruiting articles saying Pope struggled in those aspects, and would get a little too emotional if a guy came back and said "school X offered me this, what can you do now" type of thing. Frankly, I do not see how any coach could do their normal duties and try to manage NIL stuff.

[bthaunert]

I get you think my take is a bad take, but it is my take till he proves me wrong. He gets this team to final 4 this year, he proves it. He wins it all next year with mainly portal guys, he proves it. My take is and will be at KENTUCKY (NOT ANY OTHER TEAM), as of now you cannot do it with the portal players that Pope is going after. Look at Michigan (they paid well in the portal and bought the right dudes). For some reason they can play in Ann Arbor but are not made for KENTUCKY - kentucky aint for everybody. Maybe that is my main point. He is fishing for Marlins with a Crappie pole.

Of course it's your take. I like a respectful back-and-forth. I still don't understand where you're coming from with the Kentucky is different than Michigan when it comes to on the court success, or lack there of. You're putting way too much emphasis on just because every other successful program is doing it that way, that doesn't mean it would work at Kentucky, because it's different here. By every measure possible, portal guys are more successful than high school recruits when it comes to building programs. UK is no different...the issue is Mark Pope.

I do agree on this part of your post, "as of now you cannot do it with the portal players that Pope is going after". The problem is Mark Pope. It's not that the formula wouldn't work here, it's that he's not good at roster development. Mark Pope is not going to prove you wrong because Mark Pope is not going to be successful at UK. He is what he is. A hire made solely because he's "one of us" who had zero success prior to UK and, imo, will have zero success while here.

[Catsrock]

The game has changed drastically over the last few years. Depending heavily on the portal and keeping guys around, who are not top recruits, for multiple years is the way to win. Not depending on big time freshman recruits. Look at last years Final Four:

Florida
ZERO top 100 recruits on their roster
4 of their 5 starters were from the portal

Houston
Highest ranked HS recruit they had was ranked 41st in their class
Their starting line-up was 2 portal guys, a 4th year junior who spent his career at Houston, a 6th year senior who spent his entire career at Houston and a sophomore that played both years at Houston

Auburn
TWO top 100 guys out of HS on their roster - 28th and 61st ranked players in their class
4 of their 5 starters were from the portal

Duke
5 top 25 ranked HS players on their roster - 1 being a generational talent
4 of 5 starters were recruited to Duke

So, 3 of those 4 teams relied completely on transfers and veteran guys.
In 2024, UCONN had 1 top 35 recruit on their roster; Purdue had zero top 35 recruits; Bama's top recruit on the roster was ranked 40th; and NC State had 1 top 50 guy on their roster.
In 2023, UCONN had o top 35 recruits on their roster; SDSU's top ranked player was 75th out of HS; FAU had 0 top 100 recruits; and Miami had 0 top 50 guys on their roster.

The importance of getting top talent from the HS ranks means less and less, but, you also have to get guys from the portal who are not 1 year rentals. That's a huge key.

Excellent info in my opinion. Duke had the best freshman class in some time. Flagg is the runaway ROY in the NBA. Kon K is probably 2nd best rookie. The big center was really good at Duke last season. Even they had some veteran transfers. Sure, they made some noise and had a nice season. But come crunch time the team that was undoubtedly built around 18 year olds didn’t stand up to the teams built around 23 year olds—who were not ranked as high when they were 17. Physically maturity and experience is CURRENTLY more effective than top talent without the physical maturity.

So—I’d still like to see Stokes come to town and to see Pope surround him with some 23 year olds with some muscle and a jumpshot. But if it’s one or the other, I’ll take THE RIGHT 23 year old transfers and hope to hang onto some current pieces.

Apparently Hawthorne and Reese came to town with the intention of redshirting. So I see no reason they wouldn’t stick around. If either of them leave then they must have been really unimpressed with what they saw from Pope. Also hang onto Noah, Lowe (assuming surgery works), Chandler, Kam, maybe Doiubate or Jelavic. Maybe even Garrison. Buy the right transfers, see how it goes. If it doesn’t work, THEN think about moving on from Pope.

[Pobilly]

Of course it's your take. I like a respectful back-and-forth. I still don't understand where you're coming from with the Kentucky is different than Michigan when it comes to on the court success, or lack there of. You're putting way too much emphasis on just because every other successful program is doing it that way, that doesn't mean it would work at Kentucky, because it's different here. By every measure possible, portal guys are more successful than high school recruits when it comes to building programs. UK is no different...the issue is Mark Pope.

I do agree on this part of your post, "as of now you cannot do it with the portal players that Pope is going after". The problem is Mark Pope. It's not that the formula wouldn't work here, it's that he's not good at roster development. Mark Pope is not going to prove you wrong because Mark Pope is not going to be successful at UK. He is what he is. A hire made solely because he's "one of us" who had zero success prior to UK and, imo, will have zero success while here.

So that part of my statement is why it cannot be done at UK> Pope. If Pope would have done it right we might have 3 guys that are playing very well this year with Oweh and the bunch.