Is Pope's Ceiling the Sweet Sixteen?

[bucsrule8872]

Nobody loses three starters for the season and goes to the Final Four.

I can’t think of any instances when a team loses two starters and makes the Final Four.

There have been teams who have lost a starter and still made the Final Four, the big one that comes to my mind is ‘97 when we lost Anderson and still almost won it all. And of course, the ‘15 team after losing Poythress almost won a title.

But losing three guys, three pegged to be starters preseason, including your potential lottery pick and your PG, that’s just brutal and unheard of.

We really should be looking at the NIT based on what we lost.

Maybe we are being a little hard on Pope? Losing three starters and still has a competitive roster.

Sounds like the 9 we have playing right now probably deserve the money they got.

And to answer the question, I don’t think the Sweet Sixteen is his ceiling.

I want to see him coach with a 100% healthy roster before I judge him.

[blueheretic]

Now for Pope (at UK) you only have 1 and a partial year. I do not see how you can use data from Pope at Utah Valley State and BYU for his ceiling at UK. Does not compute.

We shall have to agree to disagree on this.

I think that you MUST use the data from his non-UK time.

Theoretically, UK should give a coach a huge boost that makes them seem superhuman.

Of course, that wasn't the case for Gillispie.

I think being at UK elevated the game of every coach since Rupp built the program into what it is.

In one year, Pope went from barely making the tournament pre-UK to a Sweet 16. That's a huge plus up for Pope as a coach.

I'm not saying that he would never have made a Sweet 16 across the whole of his career. I'm simply saying that he hadn't and hadn't even come close.

In 9 yrs as a head coach, Pope made the tournament two times. Both 6 seeds and both one and out to 11 seeds. Zero wins. Losses to 11th Seeded Duquesne ('24) and the unranked but ON FIRE UCLA Fighting Johnny Juzangs ('21). In his "defense" on '21's loss, Pope's 6th Seeded BYU squad lost to an 11 seeded UCLA that went all the way to the Final Four and lost to Gonzaga.

Pope underachieved in the NCAA tournament at BYU. Conversely, he rode the line at his first NCAA tournament with Kentucky defeating the lower seeded teams and losing, finally, to the higher seeded team.

Kentucky did it's job and gave him a boost.

I think Kentucky doesn't have the power needed to boost Pope any higher. Even Kentucky can't do the impossible. lol

[blueheretic]

But losing three guys, three pegged to be starters preseason, including your potential lottery pick and your PG, that’s just brutal and unheard of.

The problem with that is that he only lost one who was pegged to be a starter preseason.

I know of no one who had Pope starting Kam Williams preseason. He was supposed to be a role player.

JQ was recruited knowing full well that he'd be out until SEC-ish.

Lowe was THE lone preseason starter that was lost to injury (preseason).

I agree. Still brutal, though.

[Pobilly]

We shall have to agree to disagree on this.

I think that you MUST use the data from his non-UK time.

Theoretically, UK should give a coach a huge boost that makes them seem superhuman.

Of course, that wasn't the case for Gillispie.

I think being at UK elevated the game of every coach since Rupp built the program into what it is.

In one year, Pope went from barely making the tournament pre-UK to a Sweet 16. That's a huge plus up for Pope as a coach.

I'm not saying that he would never have made a Sweet 16 across the whole of his career. I'm simply saying that he hadn't and hadn't even come close.

In 9 yrs as a head coach, Pope made the tournament two times. Both 6 seeds and both one and out to 11 seeds. Zero wins. Losses to 11th Seeded Duquesne ('24) and the unranked but ON FIRE UCLA Fighting Johnny Juzangs ('21). In his "defense" on '21's loss, Pope's 6th Seeded BYU squad lost to an 11 seeded UCLA that went all the way to the Final Four and lost to Gonzaga.

Pope underachieved in the NCAA tournament at BYU. Conversely, he rode the line at his first NCAA tournament with Kentucky defeating the lower seeded teams and losing, finally, to the higher seeded team.

Kentucky did it's job and gave him a boost.

I think Kentucky doesn't have the power needed to boost Pope any higher. Even Kentucky can't do the impossible. lol

Dont forget Eddie Sutton. Could not handle it in Lexington as well. Billy Clyde 1.0 years before. He had some players but really did not do a ton with them. He did OK but was better at Arkansas.

[blueheretic]

Dont forget Eddie Sutton. Could not handle it in Lexington as well. Billy Clyde 1.0 years before. He had some players but really did not do a ton with them. He did OK but was better at Arkansas.

Yeap.

But even he was able to recruit hella teams at UK.

He just drank them all away.

Had that team not been decimated by the "scandal"...good lord. Sutton probably would have won a Natty.

I don't see that from Pope.

Didn't see it from Billy Clyde either.

Sutton and Gillispie are outliers because addiction destroyed their efforts. No one will ever know what might have been had they not lost their minds.

And, it's possible, that was Kentucky as well. The pressure to win at Kentucky is immense. Lesser souls are, possibly, not able to handle that pressure.

We'll see.

From what I've seen looking at Pope and his tenure at Kentucky and his two previous stops. Pope will be gone after year three. He might get a year four.

[Pobilly]

Yeap.

But even he was able to recruit hella teams at UK.

He just drank them all away.

Had that team not been decimated by the "scandal"...good lord. Sutton probably would have won a Natty.

I don't see that from Pope.

Didn't see it from Billy Clyde either.

Sutton and Gillispie are outliers because addiction destroyed their efforts. No one will ever know what might have been had they not lost their minds.

And, it's possible, that was Kentucky as well. The pressure to win at Kentucky is immense. Lesser souls are, possibly, not able to handle that pressure.

We'll see.

From what I've seen looking at Pope and his tenure at Kentucky and his two previous stops. Pope will be gone after year three. He might get a year four.

Agree if thing keep going same way he is gone year 3. As of right now he is depending on the portal to win. Not sure you can do that. He seems to not worry too much about high school kids. Now if you could get the best of the best out of the portal you might pull together an elite eight team but not sure portal players can get you over the hump to the final four. If Pope keeps all the players that can be back next year minus JQ, then pick up some shooters he might have a shot at going deeper. Problem is right now I dont think he can keep the guys he has for another year. Hope I am wrong but we will be down to 3 or 4 guys again with Pope having to rebuild a ton. If that is the case then he will fail quickly again.

[bucsrule8872]

The problem with that is that he only lost one who was pegged to be a starter preseason.

I know of no one who had Pope starting Kam Williams preseason. He was supposed to be a role player.

JQ was recruited knowing full well that he'd be out until SEC-ish.

Lowe was THE lone preseason starter that was lost to injury (preseason).

I agree. Still brutal, though.

Williams projected to be a starter by ESPN, I believe, in their preseason poll.

Nevertheless, he was starting when he got injured, which probably means a lot more than preseason prediction.

As for JQ, that’s nitpicking. Everyone expected JQ to end the season as a starter, if he was healthy.

Regardless, that’s three of the top five or six players on the team now out for the season. Nobody wins missing three of your top five or six guys.

[bucsrule8872]

I did a quick look and saw that it was On3 that had Lowe, Williams, and Quaintance projected as starters.

G: Jaland Lowe
G: Otega Oweh
F: Kam Williams
F: Mo Dioubate
C: Jayden Quaintance

https://www.on3.com/news/way-too-ear...ected-lineups/

[blueheretic]

Since when did ESPN and On3 select the starters for Kentucky Basketball.

Those were prognostications. Not reality.

[blueheretic]

As for JQ, that’s nitpicking. Everyone expected JQ to end the season as a starter, if he was healthy.

IF HE WAS HEALTHY...

Well, he ain't. He may never be. He may never play in more than a couple of games.

He may come back and be great and help turn the whole thing around.

Reality being that he has never been a starter.

You could call him a projected if he gets healthy starter but he has not been a starter.

That's no more nitpicking than if I questioned someone stating that Shaedon Sharpe was a starter.

[bucsrule8872]

IF HE WAS HEALTHY...

Well, he ain't. He may never be. He may never play in more than a couple of games.

He may come back and be great and help turn the whole thing around.

Reality being that he has never been a starter.

You could call him a projected if he gets healthy starter but he has not been a starter.

That's no more nitpicking than if I questioned someone stating that Shaedon Sharpe was a starter.

Keep grinding that axe, my friend.

[bucsrule8872]

Since when did ESPN and On3 select the starters for Kentucky Basketball.

Those were prognostications. Not reality.

LOL!

Have a nice night.