Old players vs modern Players

[KentuckyWild2020]

On the flip side of the coin, I do believe some players today would destroy them old dudes.

To me it's like good music regardless of the genre. If it's a good song it's a good song, it will thrive no matter what era..

[SportsFan]

So when I hear people today talking about "how much better today's players are"....or "how guys from yesterday couldn't hang or compete with players today"...it kind of makes me mad, and it kind of makes me chuckle. Athletically, yes ... I'll give you that. Because of the edge that conditioning plays......there are so many advancements in modern training and modern medicine, not to mention all the advancements surgically, that guys have today that wasn't known about or available back then. So physically, yes ..they are bigger, faster, stronger, etc. But to suggest that automatically makes them "better" is laughable.

I'd take Rick Barry every chance I got over Darius Miles... because if Barry was playing in Mile's day, he would have been in much better shape physically as well. And basketball wise, that's not even a doubt in anybody with half a brain's mind who would be the better basketball player.

Speaking of Rick Barry.... here's a great short little interview where he talks about exactly what we're talking about in this thread. Well worth the watch:

https://youtu.be/xGC2M68jmMo?feature=shared

[Joneslab]

Watching Major League pitchers is a good indication of how much the human body, training, and just the science of sports have evolved over the years.

Guys like Bob Gibson (and countless others)? Sure, they'd be beasts today. But you've got a lot of guys just routinely hitting 99, 100, 100+ out there on the regular. That didn't happen even a few years ago. When I was a kid there were several starters who could hang in without hitting the 90s.

Basketball is the same. Somebody mentioned foreign players above; the collapse of the eastern bloc helped to create this flattening of the basketball world, bringing in different styles, different types of athletes, etc.

I don't think it's a better game. Load management, the insane money, and a hundred other issues have diluted the overall product. But the players have evolved, at times in frightening ways. But ironically I don't really think it's added to the overall enjoyment of the sport in any profound way or anything like that.

I have a hot take about basketball that sometimes the players not being elite can be just as fun to watch. I mean watching unreal, historic talent is great...but basketball is a sport where sometimes execution, coaching, teamwork etc. can make the thing super pleasing to watch in a way that supercedes how good the individual players are.

[SportsFan]

On the flip side of the coin, I do believe some players today would destroy them old dudes.

To me it's like good music regardless of the genre. If it's a good song it's a good song, it will thrive no matter what era..

Absolutely. I don't think yesterday's players are automatically better or worse than today's players. I think (here's the key) it's up to the "individual player".

Joneslab said in a post that the greats from yesterday would be great today or in any generation because they had that drive, commitment and talent to succeed. With the modern advancements in training, conditioning, medicine and surgery they would adapt and thrive. But the individual would determine the outcome, not necessarily the generation.

[SportsFan]

I don't think it's a better game. Load management, the insane money, and a hundred other issues have diluted the overall product. But the players have evolved, at times in frightening ways. But ironically I don't really think it's added to the overall enjoyment of the sport in any profound way or anything like that.

If you watch the interview I posted with Rick Barry, that's pretty much what he's saying as well.

I have a hot take about basketball that sometimes the players not being elite can be just as fun to watch. I mean watching unreal, historic talent is great...but basketball is a sport where sometimes execution, coaching, teamwork etc. can make the thing super pleasing to watch in a way that supercedes how good the individual players are.

Ironically, that ties in with that Barry interview as well. He mentions how watching guys move without the ball can be more enjoyable to watch than a lot of one on one stuff

And I tend to agree regarding which players I enjoy watching. I enjoy watching effort as much as skill sometimes. Yeah, it's fun to watch an MJ or a Kobe...but a lot of times it can be just as enjoyable watching a lesser skilled player busting their ass and giving 110% effort. I have a feeling by the time he leaves Trent Noah might be one of those guys....not just someone you enjoy watching shoot from deep, but just enjoy watching overall when he's on the court.

[UK Cowboys]

I do think the players today are in most cases more talented, bigger stronger etc. But how do you think the great players from the past would fare today against the current guys.
a few as examples:
Wilt chamberlain
Oscar Robertson
Bill Russell
Pete marevich
Jerry west
john havlichek
lew alcindor

Take those 7 and add Dr J, Elgin Baylor and Elvin Hayes and they would play modern all nba dead even

[ORCAT]

I can’t believe we have watched the same games. Are you talking NBA?

Defense has always been the hallmark of the NBA. If a guy couldn’t play defense he couldn’t play.

Now with no hand checking allowed and a foul called for just being in a guy’s way you can hide a no defense player like Harden or Luka.

The rules have gone too far in favor of the offense.

It does take a special player to stand out on defense with these rules.

As for players, the great ones adapt. And could play in any era.

The Detroit Bad Boys would have a hard time dealing with LeBron.

MJ wouldn’t be allowed to guard like he did. But he might average 50 today?

Bird would be a 3 point shooting Jokic.

Wilt and Kareem would be more unstoppable today.

They would have to change the rules even more now to stop Wilt.

Russel would be a far better Greek Freak.


Oscar would average a triple double every year. Not just once.

It still goes back to the rules. Let the teams of the late 80’s play these rules and they would average 120 too.

Place 80’s rules on these guys and they would struggle to average 80.

This is how I see it too. Defense is a joke today, thus all the high scoring games we see. Guys several decades ago were brutal and tough. Do I think Bird, Russell, Chamberlain, Robertson, West, Baylor, Dr. J, etc would be stars today? Absolutely, given all the same advantages in training, facilities and so forth that today's players have. They had talent and more and I have no doubt it woukd shine through today. No doubt.

[KentuckyWild2020]

Absolutely. I don't think yesterday's players are automatically better or worse than today's players. I think (here's the key) it's up to the "individual player".

Joneslab said in a post that the greats from yesterday would be great today or in any generation because they had that drive, commitment and talent to succeed. With the modern advancements in training, conditioning, medicine and surgery they would adapt and thrive. But the individual would determine the outcome, not necessarily the generation.

I agree with Joneslab. Some players are just pure ALPHA'S, just different.

[KentuckyWild2020]

This is how I see it too. Defense is a joke today, thus all the high scoring games we see. Guys several decades ago were brutal and tough. Do I think Bird, Russell, Chamberlain, Robertson, West, Baylor, Dr. J, etc would be stars today? Absolutely, given all the same advantages in training, facilities and so forth that today's players have. They had talent and more and I have no doubt it woukd shine through today. No doubt.

It is a joke today if that's what you want to call it lol...

You touch a player and it's a whistle followed up by 3 hours on the monitor.

[KCKUKFan]

The best players then would be very good players today.

[KentuckyWild2020]

Watching Major League pitchers is a good indication of how much the human body, training, and just the science of sports have evolved over the years.

Guys like Bob Gibson (and countless others)? Sure, they'd be beasts today. But you've got a lot of guys just routinely hitting 99, 100, 100+ out there on the regular. That didn't happen even a few years ago. When I was a kid there were several starters who could hang in without hitting the 90s.

Basketball is the same. Somebody mentioned foreign players above; the collapse of the eastern bloc helped to create this flattening of the basketball world, bringing in different styles, different types of athletes, etc.

I don't think it's a better game. Load management, the insane money, and a hundred other issues have diluted the overall product. But the players have evolved, at times in frightening ways. But ironically I don't really think it's added to the overall enjoyment of the sport in any profound way or anything like that.

I have a hot take about basketball that sometimes the players not being elite can be just as fun to watch. I mean watching unreal, historic talent is great...but basketball is a sport where sometimes execution, coaching, teamwork etc. can make the thing super pleasing to watch in a way that supercedes how good the individual players are.

Baseball is another subject but seems like more and more Pitchers are blowing out there arms on the DL.

Is it the pitch clock , I don't know?

Let it be known that I would love to go back in time just to watch KOUFAX pitch one time...

[KentuckyWild2020]

The best players then would be very good players today.

I be darn, think we may agree on something lol lol lol..

Teasing. I believe the really good players would adapt and thrive regardless of the rules or the era..

[DA#23]

Teasing. I believe the really good players would adapt and thrive regardless of the rules or the era..

There's individual cases where things vary quite a bit.

With the current style of play, imagine Louie Dampier for example.

I think the true greats would adapt to today's game.

[Joneslab]

Baseball is another subject but seems like more and more Pitchers are blowing out there arms on the DL.

Happening to NBA players as well. Big part of the reason why there's a push to cut back on 82.

Could be varying reasons. Possibly all the games they play now as young players. Possibly that the evolution of the human body hasn't caught up to the way the NBA game is played, sort of like some sort of biological unbalancing that is causing more injuries than before.

I'm sure there are several reasons but combating it with load management hasn't won many new fans for the league.