Old players vs modern Players

[Joneslab]

It's impossible to tell about a lot of the players who played pre-integration.

I mean we're about the same distance from the Chuck Hayes era as Ralph Beard was to peach baskets.

[KentuckyWild2020]

It's impossible to tell about a lot of the players who played pre-integration.

I mean we're about the same distance from the Chuck Hayes era as Ralph Beard was to peach baskets.

Explain pre-integration???


Two of the best basketball players in the world RIGHT NOW are the slowest most out of shape and still look like MEN against boys on most given nights. Doncic and Jokic both somehow manage to dominate in a world of WORLD CLASS athletes and every analytic evaluation that you can think of.

Personally, I feel the shooters back in the day was better overall as a whole, but who was shooting 3 point shots 35-50 times a game back then prior to 79-80?


Back to defense. We don't even have to go back 50 years ( man that sounds crazy time flies). Just go back and watch Clifford Robinson play defense and tell me who in this modern era will guard a big like he did, even Rodman.

It was a understanding way back in the day playing NBA basketball. If you drive to the lane, you are getting your head taking off, it was part of the game...

[Joneslab]

Explain pre-integration??

This.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NQbcoF5DPgs

[Pobilly]

The drive inside some people, does not matter the year or anything like that is what makes players. You put some of the small PG from the past in todays game and they still play. The human drive is what makes some guys.

Larry Bird without his drive and desire to show what he could do
all the time is what made an average jumping guy dominate games. He had the attitude, the drive to make himself the best each time he crossed the line and stepped on the hardwood.

Chuck Hayes was not good at any one thing but he had that drive. He was no allstar but he proved he deserved to be on the floor.

Does not matter the year, does not matter the era of basketball. Difference is the guys that worked their game 24-7 for their whole life.

Plenty of guys with GOD GIVEN TALENT, that do not work that talent are gone in a year or three in all sports.

[Joneslab]

Chuck Hayes was not good at any one thing but he had that drive. He was no allstar but he proved he deserved to be on the floor.

Eh, I disagree pretty adamantly about Hayes.

Chuck Hayes may have been one of the more talented defensive players we've seen at Kentucky with the exception of somebody like Davis.

You could put him on all five. Unreal defensive instincts, and the strength to hang in against bigger players and bully smaller.

Offensively he was hit and miss (literally), but he had a true talent of knowing where to be on the defensive end and maxing out his ability. I think this is why his teams won so much. (I also heard a story about him once that he was a hellacious leader and most of the other guys were literally afraid of crossing him.)

[Joneslab]

I do agree that there is something to be said about "heart" in the game of basketball.

But when comparing all-time greats, it's difficult to get a feel for that heart when the players were at times so different than what you would see in later years, just in terms of their skill but also obviously the speed, size, etc.

Bird is an interesting figure in basketball history just in terms of his personality. He clearly did not want to be seen as a white guy who could just shoot. You can read Bird's entire career as a relentless battle against the status quo and the way other players thought of him because of his skin color.

When I think of him I ironically think about black players in the '60s who would be trying to undermine stereotypes about them. When I was a kid "jungle ball" was something that was still said right out in the open. That's a holdover from the old playground ball it was assumed black players in the day played. Bird was fighting against the same types of stereotypes but from the other side.

[KentuckyWild2020]

This.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NQbcoF5DPgs

In the first 10 seconds of the video, today's refs would have called 20 fouls and went to the monitor for the next hour.

I get it, old school basketball looked wack from what we see today but still think the good players would survive.

Bird could still drink a 12 pack and dominate.


Funniest thing I ever saw was Len Dawson smoking cigarettes on the side line of a NFL game

[KentuckyWild2020]

I do agree that there is something to be said about "heart" in the game of basketball.

But when comparing all-time greats, it's difficult to get a feel for that heart when the players were at times so different than what you would see in later years, just in terms of their skill but also obviously the speed, size, etc.

Bird is an interesting figure in basketball history just in terms of his personality. He clearly did not want to be seen as a white guy who could just shoot. You can read Bird's entire career as a relentless battle against the status quo and the way other players thought of him because of his skin color.

When I think of him I ironically think about black players in the '60s who would be trying to undermine stereotypes about them. When I was a kid "jungle ball" was something that was still said right out in the open. That's a holdover from the old playground ball it was assumed black players in the day played. Bird was fighting against the same types of stereotypes but from the other side.

Could it be old school players didn't play for image likeness, social media clicks, endorsements, any and all else that goes on?

Players back in the day played because they actually loved the game. They wasn't asking for 2 million dollars and a 8 ball.

Speaking of Bird, he would take it personal having a white boy guard him. When Gary Payton has nothing to say, you know you are doing something right.

Ironically, as great as Jordan is (best ever imo) ,never beat Bird in the playoffs.

[KentuckyWild2020]

This blank right here.


They say and believe this crap because they never had there head or body rung on a drive. Today's rules put a pacifier in there mouth

Prime example of looks, good, smells good, taste like crap to put it nicely.

How Jordan played 82 games plus playoffs gettinggetting by two sometimes 3 players on a drive amazes me. That record will never be broken. True Cal Ripken of basketball 🏀

[Joneslab]

Interesting: colorized footage of Elgin Baylor in the 1962 NBA Finals.

https://x.com/Jacobtheclipper/status/1947736739650670734

[BlueHeaven]

There are players today that have old school games. Our own SGA for one. Doncic and Jokic fit the old mold perfectly.

[EKYCat]

My opinion. On the whole, the old school guys wouldn't touch the court today. Yes, there are exceptions. Bird, McHale, Magic, Jordan - that era could play today. But the 1950s and 1960s guys for the most part... nah...

[SportsFan]

Could it be old school players didn't play for image likeness, social media clicks, endorsements, any and all else that goes on?

Players back in the day played because they actually loved the game. They wasn't asking for 2 million dollars and a 8 ball.

The whole idea that "today's players are so much better (or just 'better', period) than players from yesteryear is a little laughable, and a little frustrating, in all honesty

Part of the problem is generational. Every generation wants to think that they are 'part of the best'. Generally speaking, it's widely assumed and pretty much acknowledged that society, mankind and civilization is continually progressing and making advancements. That's long been accepted because historically speaking, it's pretty much fact. But it's also been widely believed that at some point, human beings will have reached their zenith and will begin to regress (the movie "Idiocracy" comes to mind 😅). I think we, perhaps unknowingly, are witnessing a bit of that.

How often do we see today's incredible athletes, guys that do things that years ago were considered extraordinary, on a regular and consistent basis? It happens all the time. Conversely, we see these incredible athletes brick free throws, make insanely ridiculous mental mistakes, and screw up the basic fundamentals. It's mind boggling to me that today's players can do some things so much better.... while at the same time be so lacking and do other things so much worse.

JWORLD brought up a great point: today's athletes play for love of money, while yesteryear's players played for the love of the game. The ironic part of J.J. Redick's "plumbers and firemen" comment is that when a lot of that generation's star players started playing....they weren't making much more than plumbers and firemen!!! The reason they got involved and started playing in the first place was because of their love of the game!!! Today, these kids start ridiculously young, and many are probably forced into it before they even know what they're doing. There's no way Tiger Woods knew what he was doing when his dad had him doing tricks with golf clubs and golf balls and age 3...he just knew that what his daddy wanted and had him doing. And the reason was because of that millions of dollars financial rainbow at the end of the road....not because he wanted his son to "love the sport". A lot of kids suffer from burnout because their parents pushed them rather than being driven themselves.

So when I hear people today talking about "how much better today's players are"....or "how guys from yesterday couldn't hang or compete with players today"...it kind of makes me mad, and it kind of makes me chuckle. Athletically, yes ... I'll give you that. Because of the edge that conditioning plays. Hell, Larry Bird lost weight and trimmed down his body fat and got in the best shape of his life IN HIS THIRTIES...after he'd won three league MVP awards... because he knew how athletes can "lose a step" as their body ages, and he wanted to keep his competitive edge and advantage over his competition. And there are so many advancements in modern training and modern medicine, not to mention all the advancements surgically, that guys have today that wasn't known about or available back then. So physically, yes ..they are bigger, faster, stronger, etc. But to suggest that automatically makes them "better" is laughable. I'd take Rick Barry every chance I got over Darius Miles... because if Barry was playing in Mile's day, he would have been in much better shape physically as well. And basketball wise, that's not even a doubt in anybody with half a brain's mind who would be the better basketball player.

[Joneslab]

David Halberstam's book The Breaks of the Game is interesting because a lot of the players back then had second jobs. They were literally fighting for their livelihood.

[SportsFan]

David Halberstam's book The Breaks of the Game is interesting because a lot of the players back then had second jobs. They were literally fighting for their livelihood.

Thanks for the recommendation..... I'll have to look into that 👍