Old players vs modern Players

[South jones]

I do think the players today are in most cases more talented, bigger stronger etc. But how do you think the great players from the past would fare today against the current guys.
a few as examples:
Wilt chamberlain
Oscar Robertson
Bill Russell
Pete marevich
Jerry west
john havlichek
lew alcindor

[Joneslab]

The greats would still be great.

There would be more emphasis on strength training, conditioning, and just the basic skills you see today...so players would modernize just by dint of Darwinian, only-the-strong-survive evolution.

One crazy difference in today's game and the game "back in the day" is how up-close and physical it is. (The word "physical" sometimes being a stand-in for dirty.) This has not added to the aesthetic pleasantness of the game. In fact a lot of times the physical play makes it harder to watch. But if you watch a YouTube video of a game from, say, 1987, and then you watch today's game one thing that jumps out (other than the deluge of three-point shooting, which is also not always aesthetically pleasing) is how damn close they are when they guard. Back in the day they guarded in a way that firewalled them against fouls. Now? They just get right up there in the grill.

I went to the Peach Jam four or five years ago and how karate-like and active the guards were on defense jumped out. You didn't see defense like that even in the NBA back in the '80s. It's a radical change to the way basketball is played.

[EKYCat]

The greats would still be great.

There would be more emphasis on strength training, conditioning, and just the basic skills you see today...so players would modernize just by dint of Darwinian, only-the-strong-survive evolution.

One crazy difference in today's game and the game "back in the day" is how up-close and physical it is. (The word "physical" sometimes being a stand-in for dirty.) This has not added to the aesthetic pleasantness of the game. In fact a lot of times the physical play makes it harder to watch. But if you watch a YouTube video of a game from, say, 1987, and then you watch today's game one thing that jumps out (other than the deluge of three-point shooting, which is also not always aesthetically pleasing) is how damn close they are when they guard. Back in the day they guarded in a way that firewalled them against fouls. Now? They just get right up there in the grill.

I went to the Peach Jam four or five years ago and how karate-like and active the guards were on defense jumped out. You didn't see defense like that even in the NBA back in the '80s. It's a radical change to the way basketball is played.

This is 100% the truth. Look back even earlier and the defense was really just kind of a formality.

[BJD]

I can’t believe we have watched the same games. Are you talking NBA?

Defense has always been the hallmark of the NBA. If a guy couldn’t play defense he couldn’t play.

Now with no hand checking allowed and a foul called for just being in a guy’s way you can hide a no defense player like Harden or Luka.

The rules have gone too far in favor of the offense.

It does take a special player to stand out on defense with these rules.

As for players, the great ones adapt. And could play in any era.

The Detroit Bad Boys would have a hard time dealing with LeBron.

MJ wouldn’t be allowed to guard like he did. But he might average 50 today?

Bird would be a 3 point shooting Jokic.

Wilt and Kareem would be more unstoppable today.

They would have to change the rules even more now to stop Wilt.

Russel would be a far better Greek Freak.


Oscar would average a triple double every year. Not just once.

It still goes back to the rules. Let the teams of the late 80’s play these rules and they would average 120 too.

Place 80’s rules on these guys and they would struggle to average 80.

[Joneslab]

Defense has always been the hallmark of the NBA. If a guy couldn’t play defense he couldn’t play.

That's not the point of the post.

It's not that they "couldn't play defense," it's the *way* defense is played that has changed.

I think there have been evolutionary leaps in the human body in the last quarter century. Also there have been major changes in the makeup of the athlete pool in the NBA, marked mostly by the way the world has flattened as these talent scouts literally scour the globe.

This doesn't mean guys aren't hidden for defense. That's always happened.

My point above was simply in the way they close gaps defensively, in the at-times assault-style nature of defense, the stunts and traps used...it's just a different world.

I could debate defense has always been a "hallmark" of the NBA maybe. That's HELLACIOUSLY debatable lol. But you're right: if you couldn't defend, you couldn't play in any era for sure.

[Joneslab]

For instance:

1985 NBA Finals, Game 2.

Watch how much berth players are given, Magic in particular. You do see that nowadays (Ben Simmons etc.), but all over the court here players are allowing daylight between themselves and their man in ways you just don't see very much today.

As I said, most of this is just the increasing popularity (to put it lightly) of the three-point shot.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oUNDVrJgVyE

[Pobilly]

Wilt, you could put him on the court in 2000 years and he in his prime and no one would be able to handle him. He was so strong, he had the strength of todays NFL O-Lineman. Too many stories about just how strong he actually was back then. You cannot teach height and natural strength, he had them both. Larry Bird's drive would make him a winner in any era. If he played in NBA today he would be just as good (pre back injury). Magic Johnson same, MJ same. Pistol Pete would dominate today just like he did years gone by. Some folks are just greats, point blank.

[BJD]

For instance:

1985 NBA Finals, Game 2.

Watch how much berth players are given, Magic in particular. You do see that nowadays (Ben Simmons etc.), but all over the court here players are allowing daylight between themselves and their man in ways you just don't see very much today.

As I said, most of this is just the increasing popularity (to put it lightly) of the three-point shot.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oUNDVrJgVyE

Was that the same finals where McHale close lined Rambis after Bird called them out for playing soft?

[Joneslab]

Was that the same finals where McHale close lined Rambis after Bird called them out for playing soft?

Not sure, but there's a play early in this game where Bird and Rambis almost come to blows after Bird gives him a forearm shiver out of nowhere as he goes up the floor lol.

I always liked these Lakers teams and am the rare Kentuckian who would've rooted for the Lakers had I been old enough. Partly the Riley connection, but I liked Rambis and Magic a lot.

[SportsFan]

Was that the same finals where McHale close lined Rambis after Bird called them out for playing soft?

No, that was the 1984 Finals.

[Jeffky62]

Joe hall believed Ralph beard could play in today's game .

[SportsFan]

I always liked these Lakers teams and am the rare Kentuckian who would've rooted for the Lakers had I been old enough.

Hardly. Growing up in Owensboro I remember vividly watching one game of the 1985 Finals at a friend's house who was having a party. There was about 15 to 20 people in the (large) living room area watching the game, and I was one of exactly 2 (TWO) people rooting for the Celtics. We were outnumbered probably 7 to 1, easily, by Lakers fans. I remember a girl there looking at me in disgust when I said I was rooting for the Celtics.... and she said "How can you root for the Celtics?". I said I liked Larry Bird, he was my favorite player, and I'd liked him since he played at Indiana State. I asked what she had against the Celtics....and her answer was (and I kid you not) "They're too white".

Fun fact - that girl, like everybody else in the entire house, was white.

[SportsFan]

The greats would still be great.

There would be more emphasis on strength training, conditioning, and just the basic skills you see today...so players would modernize just by dint of Darwinian, only-the-strong-survive evolution.

Agreed. 100%

One crazy difference in today's game and the game "back in the day" is how up-close and physical it is. (The word "physical" sometimes being a stand-in for dirty.) This has not added to the aesthetic pleasantness of the game. In fact a lot of times the physical play makes it harder to watch. But if you watch a YouTube video of a game from, say, 1987, and then you watch today's game one thing that jumps out (other than the deluge of three-point shooting, which is also not always aesthetically pleasing) is how damn close they are when they guard. Back in the day they guarded in a way that firewalled them against fouls. Now? They just get right up there in the grill.

I went to the Peach Jam four or five years ago and how karate-like and active the guards were on defense jumped out. You didn't see defense like that even in the NBA back in the '80s. It's a radical change to the way basketball is played.

I think this can partially be the explained by the difference in how the game is played from an offensive standpoint.

Back in the 80s, the game focused MUCH more on "pounding the ball inside". The 3 point shot was relatively new, and was not used anywhere NEAR as much as it is today. Defenders "backed off" offensive players 20 feet from the hoop: 1) to ensure that they weren't in a compromising position where the offensive player could drive past them. And 2) they were practically daring players to shoot (especially from distance). For one thing, players back then didn't shoot from distance anywhere near as often as today, or with anywhere near as much success. Today's players launch from deep and they shoot from distance with regular frequency. Therefore, it's more important to guard them "up close".

So it was a strategical play more so than any "toughness". As evidenced by how the 3 point shot has come into play, the game has changed..... and so have defensive strategies.

[KYNomad]

Can’t comment on the NBA, but one time I tried to watch a recording of a UK game from (I think) the 70s and found it unwatchable. There was a two foot bubble around the offensive players and if a defender looked too hard at the guy with the ball it was a foul. The whole game looked like the basketball equivalent of awkward white kids at a high school dance, no flow, no rhythm, no athleticism, everything looked stiff.

*There’s a chance I am remembering this wrong and the game I pulled up was further back in time.

[bthaunert]

Joe hall believed Ralph beard could play in today's game .

I have a tough time with that one. I think there is only 1 guy in the NBA that is under 6 feet tall. He was one of the greatest of all time in his era, but not sure his stature would be able to play in todays game.