Please retell the Joe B Hall story

[KYNomad]

No one has said anything about what brought about the end of his time as head coach?

[KentuckyFlyer]

Pressure to win. They say the 78 season was the season without joy or something like that. They felt they HAD to win the title that year. I think Joe B was done at the end. It seems to me that he also said that he didn't want to be "an old coach." I think he got out at the right time for him. It was definitely his decision; he was not pushed out by fans or the school.

[largebluej]

My credentials to opine on this topic: I was an 11 year old kid devouring everything I could read about the Cats when The Beasman became HC. My time as a student at UK coincided with the Bowie-Turpin-Minniefield- Hord-Master years and I went to practically every home game during that time. I was at the first Dream Game versus Louisville at Knoxville in the 1983 NCAAT. And of course a huge fan ever since.

While Joe B Hall was an assistant under Coach Rupp he briefly left to take a HC job elsewhere. He came back to the UK staff and it was widely believed he was promised to be Rupp's replacement and that Rupp would be forced to comply with the University's then mandatory retirement age of 70. That all came to pass after the 1972 season. I believe the administration wanted the next coach to be someone who really understood the program and what it meant to the fans and the University. Joe B checked those boxes and was also a pretty good behind the scenes politician.

Rupp did not exit gracefully. He loudly and frequently complained about being forced out. He was allowed to keep an office in Memorial Coliseum and he had weekly show on WLEX TV in town. If he had to leave the job, he wanted another assistant, Gale Catlett, to replace him. He didn't make things easy for Joe B, to say the least.

Hall was under tremendous pressure, naturally. That was reflected in his public demeanor. He definitely came off as stodgy and no fun, particular when compared to Denny Crum, who took over at Louisville the year prior, and to more colorful coaches in the league such as Dale Brown and Ray Mears.

Another factor that affected his public perception the first 10 years of his tenure was his refusal to put Louisville on the schedule. He said that Coach Rupp didn't believe in playing in-state schools and he considered it a policy worth keeping. He was vilified in the media for that, especially by Billy Reed at the Courier Journal. If you weren't around for the days when print media was king it's hard to understand what a big deal that was. And it went on for years.

Joe B's first six seasons have to be considered a pretty big success. Several SEC titles, two final fours and of course the 1978 national title, the school's first in 20 years, and there wouldn't be another for 18 years. His victory over undefeated Indiana in the 1975 elite eight is as big a UK win as any in my lifetime, as far as I'm concerned.

After the 78 title I think it's clear he slipped some. An earlier post said he fell off when assistant Dickie Parsons left the staff and I completely agree. Parsons was his John Robic. Despite some heralded recruiting classes he only made one more F4 and that trip ended with infamous "3-33 2nd half shooting" loss to Georgetown. During those seasons LSU became a big rival and probably our equal in the SEC for a while. Louisville got their own NC in 1980 and made multiple F4's during those years. The SECT was revived in 1979. The Cats didn't fare well in it the first few renewals, including as a host in Rupp Arena. Joe B broke through with a win in the 1984 SECT. The 80, 81 and 82 seasons all ended with disappointing losses in the NCAAT. The 1982 tourney loss to Middle Tennessee was particularly galling.

The comments made earlier about Hall favoring inside play to outside shooting were definitely the perception of those years and mostly true. His best teams were known for tough, physical defense. Dale Brown said 78 Cats were "brutalizing the game". Ray Mears accused the 75 Cats of playing "karate defense". Both of those guys can go straight to hell, IMO.

Joe B retired after the 85 season. It was kind of shocking at the time. I think he had enough success and enough of the pressure to step away then.

Pros of Joe B:

-Immediately followed a legend with a degree of success that still holds up with any similar scenario over 50 years later
-Despite the aforementioned reluctance by Coach Rupp to yield the spotlight, he never said a bad word about his predecessor in public. And he could do a hilarious and spot on impression of Rupp's Kansas twang.
-Integrated the program, both on the roster and the coaching staff
-Won the school's fifth national title with the dominant start-to-finish #1 all the way 1978 team
-Interrupted what probably would have been two straight undefeated NC seasons by IU with the win over them in the 1975 NCAAT. That goes a long way with me.
-Despite retiring at a relatively young age he never took another coaching job. He was reportedly offered a lot of money by Tennessee but stayed loyal to UK
-Pulled off an incredible later in life transformation in terms of his public personna. He went from a frowning stuffed shirt to the state's lovable old grandpa, largely due to the radio show he and Crum did for many years

Cons of Joe B:

-Underachievement in the back half of his tenure despite a lot of highly regarded talent
-Also during that time, he allowed the booster involvement that ultimately got us on probation under Sutton to take root and grow
-He went 1-12 in the regular season at Tennessee during his tenure. That was unbearable to this border living Cat fan who was coming of age during the same time

I was a harsh critic of Joe B in my younger years. I still believe some of those criticisms are valid, but with age (and hopefully wisdom) I've come to believe he did about as good a job as anyone could have done in the same circumstances.

[DA#23]

^ Excellent post, largebluej. Although I've read much of that history, as a guy that's 38 years old it means so much more to hear it relayed from a person that experienced it.

[Fox2Monk]

Joe B was before my time, but, the guy followed THE GUY. That's tough to do, and he did it with 3 Elite Eights and 3 Final Fours including a title in 13 seasons. 6 of the 13 seasons he was here they went to the Elite 8 or better! Plus the guy just loved the program.

Joe B was an incredible coach and recruiter. What he accomplished was amazing. Just like most great coaches a few different breaks and his tenure would be even better.

[Fox2Monk]

My credentials to opine on this topic: I was an 11 year old kid devouring everything I could read about the Cats when The Beasman became HC. My time as a student at UK coincided with the Bowie-Turpin-Minniefield- Hord-Master years and I went to practically every home game during that time. I was at the first Dream Game versus Louisville at Knoxville in the 1983 NCAAT. And of course a huge fan ever since.

While Joe B Hall was an assistant under Coach Rupp he briefly left to take a HC job elsewhere. He came back to the UK staff and it was widely believed he was promised to be Rupp's replacement and that Rupp would be forced to comply with the University's then mandatory retirement age of 70. That all came to pass after the 1972 season. I believe the administration wanted the next coach to be someone who really understood the program and what it meant to the fans and the University. Joe B checked those boxes and was also a pretty good behind the scenes politician.

Rupp did not exit gracefully. He loudly and frequently complained about being forced out. He was allowed to keep an office in Memorial Coliseum and he had weekly show on WLEX TV in town. If he had to leave the job, he wanted another assistant, Gene Catlett, to replace him. He didn't make things easy for Joe B, to say the least.

Hall was under tremendous pressure, naturally. That was reflected in his public demeanor. He definitely came off as stodgy and no fun, particular when compared to Denny Crum, who took over at Louisville the year prior, and to more colorful coaches in the league such as Dale Brown and Ray Mears.

Another factor that affected his public perception the first 10 years of his tenure was his refusal to put Louisville on the schedule. He said that Coach Rupp didn't believe in playing in-state schools and he considered it a policy worth keeping. He was vilified in the media for that, especially by Billy Reed at the Courier Journal. If you weren't around for the days when print media was king it's hard to understand what a big deal that was. And it went on for years.

Joe B's first six seasons have to be considered a pretty big success. Several SEC titles, two final fours and of course the 1978 national title, the school's first in 20 years, and there wouldn't be another for 18 years. His victory over undefeated Indiana in the 1975 elite eight is as big a UK win as any in my lifetime, as far as I'm concerned.

After the 78 title I think it's clear he slipped some. An earlier post said he fell off when assistant Dickie Parsons left the staff and I completely agree. Parsons was his John Robic. Despite some heralded recruiting classes he only made one more F4 and that trip ended with infamous "3-33 2nd half shooting" loss to Georgetown. During those seasons LSU became a big rival and probably our equal in the SEC for a while. Louisville got their own NC in 1980 and made multiple F4's during those years. The SECT was revived in 1979. The Cats didn't fare well in it the first few renewals, including as a host in Rupp Arena. Joe B broke through with a win in the 1984 SECT. The 80, 81 and 82 seasons all ended with disappointing losses in the NCAAT. The 1982 tourney loss to Middle Tennessee was particularly galling.

The comments made earlier about Hall favoring inside play to outside shooting were definitely the perception of those years and mostly true. His best teams were known for tough, physical defense. Dale Brown said 78 Cats were "brutalizing the game". Ray Mears accused the 75 Cats of playing "karate defense". Both of those guys can go straight to hell, IMO.

Joe B retired after the 85 season. It was kind of shocking at the time. I think he had enough success and enough of the pressure to step away then.

Pros of Joe B:

-Immediately followed a legend with a degree of success that still holds up with any similar scenario over 50 years later
-Despite the aforementioned reluctance by Coach Rupp to yield the spotlight, he never said a bad word about his predecessor in public. And he could do a hilarious and spot on impression of Rupp's Kansas twang.
-Integrated the program, both on the roster and the coaching staff
-Won the school's fifth national title with the dominant start-to-finish #1 all the way 1978 team
-Interrupted what probably would have been two straight undefeated NC seasons by IU with the win over them in the 1975 NCAAT. That goes a long way with me.
-Despite retiring at a relatively young age he never took another coaching job. He was reportedly offered a lot of money by Tennessee but stayed loyal to UK
-Pulled off an incredible later in life transformation in terms of his public personna. He went from a frowning stuffed shirt to the state's lovable old grandpa, largely due to the radio show he and Crum did for many years

Cons of Joe B:

-Underachievement in the back half of his tenure despite a lot of highly regarded talent
-Also during that time, he allowed the booster involvement that ultimately got us on probation under Sutton to take root and grow
-He went 1-12 in the regular season at Tennessee during his tenure. That was unbearable to this border living Cat fan who was coming of age during the same time

I was a harsh critic of Joe B in my younger years. I still believe some of those criticisms are valid, but with age (and hopefully wisdom) I've come to believe he did about as good a job as anyone could have done in the same circumstances.

As far as I am concerned the booster stuff doesn’t matter. I still think we were setup and did nothing more than every other blue blood at the time to get players. It’s a cutthroat game to win. Just like life, the grey area rules everywhere to flat out corruption.

[Jeffky62]

This man ,Gale catlett ,was the asst that rupp wanted to be his predecessor ,not Joe b.

[BJD]

Joe B was a far better coach than he ever got credit for being. he was criticized a lot for not playing a perimeter game but the game was different then. It was an inside game. Joe B changed the game. Even when I played in that era coaches were against weight training for basketball players. Joe B was not. He basically invented the power game.

He followed a legend that didn't go quietly but he remained unflappable. He went to 3 FF's and even won the NIT when that was something. Won the '78 title, still my favorite UK team ever, and that team averaged about 90 points a game with no 3 point line and no shot clock. This is when Dean Smith is playing stall ball. Joe B that won't let guards shoot is running up and down the court averaging 90.

If big Sam doesn't get hurt Joe B most likely has another title. He represented UK with class, dignity and damn fine basketball!!

[Trueblujr]

True. Troy McKinley couldn’t miss from the corner. But it was worth no more than a Bowie or Turpin dunk back then.

I wonder where Louie Dampier would stand in the records if there had been a three point line in his day.

[Trueblujr]

This man ,Gale catlett ,was the asst that rupp wanted to be his predecessor ,not Joe b.

Have to wonder where we'd be if Catlett had taken the reigns. He got Cincinnati in trouble with the NCAA but had a pretty long and fairly successful but otherwise mediocre (by our standards) tenure at WVU. Wonder if the prestige of UK would have helped elevate his success any.

[largebluej]

This man ,Gale catlett ,was the asst that rupp wanted to be his predecessor ,not Joe b.

Thanks for the correction

[largebluej]

^ Excellent post, largebluej. Although I've read much of that history, as a guy that's 38 years old it means so much more to hear it relayed from a person that experienced it.

Thank you very much. That era hits me in my wheelhouse.

[largebluej]

Joe B was a far better coach than he ever got credit for being. he was criticized a lot for not playing a perimeter game but the game was different then. It was an inside game. Joe B changed the game. Even when I played in that era coaches were against weight training for basketball players. Joe B was not. He basically invented the power game.

He followed a legend that didn't go quietly but he remained unflappable. He went to 3 FF's and even won the NIT when that was something. Won the '78 title, still my favorite UK team ever, and that team averaged about 90 points a game with no 3 point line and no shot clock. This is when Dean Smith is playing stall ball. Joe B that won't let guards shoot is running up and down the court averaging 90.

If big Sam doesn't get hurt Joe B most likely has another title. He represented UK with class, dignity and damn fine basketball!!

Thanks for mentioning the 1976 NIT title. I should have in my post. That tournament really did matter back then. The NCAAT had nowhere near as many teams as it does now. I'm thinking maybe 40? Robey broke his leg mid-season and didn't return. Season was going sideways but they got it together late and went on a run.

[Pope John Wall II]

The only thing I know about him as a coach is what my dad has told me, and it's mostly unflattering.

The truth, clearly, is different, so it's nice to hear another side of his tenure.

Similar experience. Pops attended UK during the Issel years, and his take on Joe B's tenure was 'accomplishing less with more'.

[Old School]

In the first round of the 1978 NCAA tournament, Kentucky (ranked #1) was losing to Florida State by 7 or so. Hall benched three of the team’s stars and replaced them with little used reserves. It was gutsy. That line up came back and tied the game. The benched players got their act together for the rest of that game avdcyge tournament.

The 1983-84 team was outstanding and had a 7 point or so lead at halftime in the National semifinal against Georgetown. The second half was one of the most puzzling on court failures I’ve ever seen. That team had five players drafted that year; Bowie and Turpin went #2 and #6. Walker went #5 two years later. Eight players from that team were drafted. At least four played in the NBA. Georgetown went on to win it all, against a Houston team that Kentucky had defeated in the regular season. That team came very close to winning the national championship, and it was fully capable of doing so.

Hall’s next team was his last. It entered the tournament as a 12 seed. First they upset 5 seed Washington. Then they upset 4 seed UNLV. Then they met 1 seed St. John’s and it’s All American Chris Mullin. My recollection is that Kentucky was in it and leading when Mullin’s thumb poked out Kenny Walker’s eye. Walker had been the star of that team and that game to that point. That changed it all. St. John’s won and went on to the Final Four (hosted at Rupp Arena), losing to Georgetown. That tournament was very well coached by Hall.