From Matt Jones: the best explaination for a disasterous month

[J.Jennings]

^ There've been very few NBA stars who have ever come through Kentucky. Wall, Davis, Cousins, Antoine Walker maybe--that's about it.

Most players who've come through here have ended up being role players in the NBA. That's the ceiling for 90% of the guys who make it to that league. When you talk NBA stars you're talking a miniscule percentage of guys walking planet Earth.

The "role players" you mention at Kentucky played roles, but they were not role players in that if you took them off those teams, you'd have a radically different team.

Role players in college IMO are guys like Cameron Mills from that era. Allen Edwards. Ramon Harris. Jorts. Darnell Dodson. Marcus Lee.

The players from '98 that you bring up were way more integral.

What are we even talking about???? lol lol lol lol

Now I apologize for my post a while a go and it was a little harsh, no offense intended and yes we did have some very good talent on the 98 team. Not NBA sure fire stuff but great college player material.

Here's the real deal, I love Cal and I think he's hands down the best recruiter I have ever seen in my time. He's great with us fans and you couldn't ask for another coach to relate and handle the Kentucky job the way he has. Still, if I have to be perfectly honest and bring up the 90's era with Pitino, it's because I feel like Rick is the better coach between the two though he can't hold a candle in the wind recruiting against Calipari. Rick just seems to get more out of the Cards he's been dealt.

I don't know, I still think you need solid role players on a team to help do the little things that need to be done.

[Joneslab]

What are we even talking about???? lol lol lol lol

Role players.

I don't know, I still think you need solid role players on a team to help do the little things that need to be done.

You do, but that has nothing to do with whether those '98 players were role players.

They were only role players insofar as that that team had a good deal of balance and so you had certain guys who could fit into a role. But if asked to stand out and carry a team, those guys had four, five, maybe six players who could step forward on any given night. They didn't have the stars Cal's teams have had, but they definitely had college stars with marketable NBA potential. And nobody Cal has is going to have an NBA career like Nazr Mohammed has had.

Ideally on a college team you would have three pros and then you would have guys who were at least capable to back them up.

When Kentucky's gotten in trouble in the last ten or fifteen years--Tubby's last two years, Gillispie's years--what's happened is that there was just a huge drop-off from the stars to the role guys. Or else you've just not had enough talent at the very top, like in a few of Tubby's years.

You can't have that. Recipe for disaster.

This game is about counting the pros. This is why Cal is doing it the right way. If that's me being a "yes man," I'll take it, because what's going to happen when Cal leaves is that the JWORLD's of the world are going to be shocked at how easy Cal has made a lot of this look.

[J.Jennings]

Role players.



You do, but that has nothing to do with whether those '98 players were role players.

They were only role players insofar as that that team had a good deal of balance and so you had certain guys who could fit into a role. But if asked to stand out and carry a team, those guys had four, five, maybe six players who could step forward on any given night. They didn't have the stars Cal's teams have had, but they definitely had college stars with marketable NBA potential. And nobody Cal has is going to have an NBA career like Nazr Mohammed has had.

Ideally on a college team you would have three pros and then you would have guys who were at least capable to back them up.

When Kentucky's gotten in trouble in the last ten or fifteen years--Tubby's last two years, Gillispie's years--what's happened is that there was just a huge drop-off from the stars to the role guys. Or else you've just not had enough talent at the very top, like in a few of Tubby's years.

You can't have that. Recipe for disaster.

This game is about counting the pros. This is why Cal is doing it the right way. If that's me being a "yes man," I'll take it, because what's going to happen when Cal leaves is that the JWORLD's of the world are going to be shocked at how easy Cal has made a lot of this look.

I won't be shocked at all. Cal wins because he gets the best talent and even though he has to do a great job year in and year out managing ego's, he should win. Easy to say but look what other coaches in the game have to say about the talent that Cal gets. Most all believe if someone they could get a shot a players like that, it would make things a lot more easier. I still think Cal has a ceiling of growth if he can correct a few things offensively on his end. Cal coaches on the fly year to year and I am not sure if he has a exact set system in place like other coaches. Realistically, Bo Ryan and Wisconsin didn't beat us because of the players, we got beat because of the system that revolved around putting each and every one of there guys in a position to do what they did best. I feel the same way about our 98 team and even Rick's Championship team. With our team, it was always by committee game to game and it burnt us in the end even though we had the superior talent and experience to go along with it.

[Joneslab]

I won't be shocked at all. Cal wins because he gets the best talent and even though he has to do a great job year in and year out managing ego's, he should win. Easy to say but look what other coaches in the game have to say about the talent that Cal gets.

I think this is where you and I have a disconnect.

This game is about getting that talent. I think I said this above but your Rick Pitino stuff always falls flat when you think about how many titles he had at Kentucky.

One.

To John Calipari's one.

And Rick Pitino's one title was because of insane talent.

[J.Jennings]

I think this is where you and I have a disconnect.

This game is about getting that talent. I think I said this above but your Rick Pitino stuff always falls flat when you think about how many titles he had at Kentucky.

One.

To John Calipari's one.

And Rick Pitino's one title was because of insane talent.

We don't have a disconnect in regards to talent but here's the bigger issue, does Rick Pitino, Billy Donovan or Coach K win a Championship this year with all the talent we had?? I sometimes don't think that Cal fully utilizes the talent he assembles and it's a true refelction of his X's and O's AAU style offense that turns into a stall when things get tight. Defensively he's sound but then again, who wouldn't be with all the athletic talent he surrounds himself with???

Our disconnect is that you are afraid to admit that Cal has flaws with his X's and O's.


I agree 110% with you on talent, if you don't have talent your not going far. Still think you have to have role players even if they are not NBA talent. The 1985 Villanova team lacking talent may never happen again, I don't know.. Maybe this year was a flat out fluke resembling Duke beating the great UNLV team back in the day?


Btw,, unless I am missing something, Rick has 2 titles..........

This game is [I]about[I] getting the talent and coaching that talent to win based on the teams overall strengths and weaknesses. If that means your running plays for Booker to get open looks, you do it. If that means you spread the floor and post Towns by himself, you do it.

I believe in Cal, just not the dribble drive AAU ball mentality.

[Joneslab]

We don't have a disconnect in regards to talent but here's the bigger issue, does Rick Pitino, Billy Donovan or Coach K win a Championship this year with all the talent we had??.

You can't make up impossible questions and then pretend they're actually arguments.

Who knows?

Rick Pitino had one title at Kentucky, as I posted.

Calipari has one.

Your posts sometimes gloss over the Pitino years as if it was all domination and he was over there scripting brilliant plays as under-talented scrappers from Kentucky played in harmony on the court.

Cal has owned Pitino since coming to Kentucky. Their records at Kentucky are very similar. Same number of titles.

Pitino needs the same thing Cal does to win: players.

[Joneslab]

And running through JWORLD's posts since Wisconsin has been this idea that Wisconsin was somehow this undeserving team and that it was a cataclysmic upset that they beat us.

Kentucky was favored by a whopping four points. Wisconsin had gone to the Final Four the year before and lost by a point. They returned literally everybody.

Kentucky was a great team this year but I feel like they've been made into the '96 Bulls because it makes it sound more horrific that they lost.

They weren't that much better than Wisconsin. They really weren't. Wisconsin was the team that struck fear into my heart way back in October and they were the one team I seriously did not want to play.

I was surprised as we all were about how the game went, but JWORLD's narrative about that game and about this Kentucky team is a total fiction.

[J.Jennings]

And running through JWORLD's posts since Wisconsin has been this idea that Wisconsin was somehow this undeserving team and that it was a cataclysmic upset that they beat us.

Kentucky was favored by a whopping four points. Wisconsin had gone to the Final Four the year before and lost by a point. They returned literally everybody.

Kentucky was a great team this year but I feel like they've been made into the '96 Bulls because it makes it sound more horrific that they lost.

They weren't that much better than Wisconsin. They really weren't. Wisconsin was the team that struck fear into my heart way back in October and they were the one team I seriously did not want to play.

I was surprised as we all were about how the game went, but JWORLD's narrative about that game and about this Kentucky team is a total fiction.

It's really not because all you preach is talent, talent, talent, elite athletes, talent, etc. etc.

Simple point, how does Kentucky get beat by all that talent?? It just goes to show that having the most talent doesn't guarantee you anything. How many other college teams have had the mass overall talent that this Kentucky team had??? This wasn't the 96 Bulls, this was the Eastern Conference All star team???

If talent wins games and Kentucky had the best talent, then why would you fear Wisconsin?? Is it the coaching?? The clearly did not have the talent that Kentucky and superior talent wins ball games right???

Your not making any sense and dancing around the coaching part of this. Kentucky went the to Championship game and lost returned Stein,Harrisons, and added more talent.

[J.Jennings]

Your posts sometimes gloss over the Pitino years as if it was all domination and he was over there scripting brilliant plays as under-talented scrappers from Kentucky played in harmony on the court.

Case in point,, 92 Kentucky team and one of if not the greatest game of all time lol lol lol lol lol. Nobody expected that team to get that far and play like that lol lol.

[Joneslab]

If talent wins games and Kentucky had the best talent, then why would you fear Wisconsin??

Because Wisconsin had a ton of talent.

But also because they'd been there before and they were smart. Veteran teams usually are. You knew they wouldn't beat themselves.

But most of all I felt like they'd have something to play for because of the way the game went the previous year.

Super dangerous game. I wanted no part of it because even though I "preach" talent, I understand that in a one-game situation anything can happen.

[Joneslab]

Your not making any sense and dancing around the coaching part of this.

I'm not dancing around it. I just think Calipari's a far better coach than you do, but I also understand that "coaching" has to do with a lot of different things.

One of those things, maybe the most important, is finding, getting, and motivating talented players.

[J.Jennings]

Because Wisconsin had a ton of talent.

But also because they'd been there before and they were smart. Veteran teams usually are. You knew they wouldn't beat themselves.

But most of all I felt like they'd have something to play for because of the way the game went the previous year.

Super dangerous game. I wanted no part of it because even though I "preach" talent, I understand that in a one-game situation anything can happen.

Bottomline, Calipari was outcoached and we got beat, plain and simple. Love Cal and I agree that TALENT will win basketball game and ultimately Championships. However, on this one night at the worst possible time, we where not prepared for Wisconsin. We looked lost on defense in the first half and we played to Wisconsin, not the other way around. Looked like we played not to lose instead of playing to win. Maybe Calipari saw this but had no way or turning it around, I don't know. Our TALENT and defense got us back in the game but our AAU offensive approach lost it for us in the end and that's on Cal. Even Tubby Smith was great at calling a timeout and drawing up a score after the timeout.

[J.Jennings]

I'm not dancing around it. I just think Calipari's a far better coach than you do, but I also understand that "coaching" has to do with a lot of different things.

One of those things, maybe the most important, is finding, getting, and motivating talented players.

Don't get me wrong, I think Cal is a great coach when you look at the big picture. Besides, who you going to replace him with? I guess you can say I am greedy and I feel that if Cal was to tweak a few things here and there, it would complete him as a coach in every aspect of everything that goes along with it..........

At the end of the day, I like Calipari and DEEPLY APPRECIATE all he has done. Most importantly, Cal keeps it real as real can be without the BS. It's easy to sit here on the chat board and take shots but face to face man to man, hell Cal is probably still hurting over that loss to Wisconsin more than I am. Maybe he would have done some things different who knows???

[DA#23]

Even Tubby Smith was great at calling a timeout and drawing up a score after the timeout.

I wish people would hush with trying to compare Tubby to Calipari, in any way, form, or fashion.

"And now, starting at Power Forward, Dddddddwight PERRRRRRRRYYYYYY....."

Oops, can't even submit the correct starting lineup when playing a #1 seed.

[J.Jennings]

I wish people would hush with trying to compare Tubby to Calipari, in any way, form, or fashion.

"And now, starting at Power Forward, Dddddddwight PERRRRRRRRYYYYYY....."

Oops, can't even submit the correct starting lineup when playing a #1 seed.

Can't argue with that lol lol lol