From Matt Jones: the best explaination for a disasterous month

[J.Jennings]

John Wall, Eric Bledsoe, Brandon Knight, Marquis Teague, Andrew Harrison - no thanks, yuck!

Stop coat tailing off Will Lavender.........

Now crazzed, i don't always agree with you but i do recall that me and a few others like yourself quickly saw the writing on the wall for Tubby about two years before he quit and from day 1 with Gillispie. You just have to get over the fact that sometimes black and white kids that are from the state of Kentucky that come to Kentucky to play can actually contribute and help the UK Wildcats win basektball games and sometimes even win Championsips. You don't have to have a team full of 5 stars from New York, California, or all the other big cities from across the United States.Your quick to point all the stupid percentages that really doesn't mean a hill of beans but at the same time, did you get the memo that players like Epps, Sparks, Padgett, Estill, Bennett, Ford, Pelphrey, Feldhaus, Farmer, and many other kids born and raised in Kentucky actually went to Kentucky and contributed in a big time way??????????

Am i missing something here????????????????

[JFCats22]

Stop coat tailing off Will Lavender.........

Now crazzed, i don't always agree with you but i do recall that me and a few others like yourself quickly saw the writing on the wall for Tubby about two years before he quit and from day 1 with Gillispie. You just have to get over the fact that sometimes black and white kids that are from the state of Kentucky that come to Kentucky to play can actually contribute and help the UK Wildcats win basektball games and sometimes even win Championsips. You don't have to have a team full of 5 stars from New York, California, or all the other big cities from across the United States.Your quick to point all the stupid percentages that really doesn't mean a hill of beans but at the same time, did you get the memo that players like Epps, Sparks, Padgett, Estill, Bennett, Ford, Pelphrey, Feldhaus, Farmer, and many other kids born and raised in Kentucky actually went to Kentucky and contributed in a big time way??????????

Am i missing something here????????????????

I have said several times that I don't care if they are black, white, purple, or blue...doesn't matter to me. Also, the Kentucky thing does nothing for me. I don't care where they are from if they can play they are welcome here. If there is a great player from the state that comes to KY even better but those are extremely few and far between.

All those guys you named did contribute and helped UK, definitely. However, there is no one on that list that would have contributed (in some cases, even played) during the Cal era. We are on another level talent wise than we ever were during the Tubby years and even during part of the Pitino years. You have romanticized and built up these former players into something they weren't. You really think Farmer or Pelphrey would be able to play on Cal's teams? No way.

I'll take my chances with the 5 star guys from NY or CA and you can have all the KY kids you can find. And, I completely disagree with your notion that you don't need 5 star players to win - there are very few examples of a team winning a title without 5 star/future pro players on their team.

[Joneslab]

I watch a lot of high school basketball in this state.

Here's the thing about it: Kentucky produces very, very few high Division I players.

There are times recently when our Mr. Basketball ended up at obscure NAIA schools.

You see flashes of talent (Darius Miller), but it's rarely elite.

If you spend much time at all recruiting Kentucky then you're going to not be able to field a high-level basketball team. The demographics aren't great, the city of Louisvile has been dormant for a long time in terms of elite talent, and Kentucky loses a lot of its talented players to these basketball factories like Oak Hill. We've seen that with D'Angelo Russell and Rondo.

It's definitely a romantic idea that a Kentucky kid would come in and do what Darius did. But it's just rare and if you're recruiting like you should at Kentucky, then you're not going to be able to build a competitor by spending much time in the Commonwealth.

[Joneslab]

And it's not just the University of Kentucky. Louisville has had very little success with Kentucky-born players in the Pitino era.

Here's the roster for the University of the Cumberlands, in Williamsburg. They have as many players from Australia on the roster as Kentucky players

Here's the University of Pikeville's roster. They've got the same number of Kentucky players as UK does: two.

Here's Eastern Kentucky University's roster. They had one Kentucky player. He's a walk-on.

[J.Jennings]

I have said several times that I don't care if they are black, white, purple, or blue...doesn't matter to me. Also, the Kentucky thing does nothing for me. I don't care where they are from if they can play they are welcome here. If there is a great player from the state that comes to KY even better but those are extremely few and far between.

All those guys you named did contribute and helped UK, definitely. However, there is no one on that list that would have contributed (in some cases, even played) during the Cal era. We are on another level talent wise than we ever were during the Tubby years and even during part of the Pitino years. You have romanticized and built up these former players into something they weren't. You really think Farmer or Pelphrey would be able to play on Cal's teams? No way.

I'll take my chances with the 5 star guys from NY or CA and you can have all the KY kids you can find. And, I completely disagree with your notion that you don't need 5 star players to win - there are very few examples of a team winning a title without 5 star/future pro players on their team.

First of all, nobody ever said recruit a entire team full of Kentucky white boys smh. As for elite recruits, duh!!! You must have some big time players if you want to go deep but you don't need 10, could probaly get by with 3 or 4 if you have good role players ( Farmer Ford Feldhaus Padgett W.Bennett Sparks Epps and the list goes on and on and on and on)

I will agree with you 110% that none of the past UK legends would ever play for John Calipari. Hell, i would be surprise if Rex Chapman could have played for Calipari. I would be be surprised if my good friend and late Mike Casey could have played for Calipari??

As for all the talent that Cal is bringing in now, did you forget that Rick Pitino actually had a FULL SQUAD his last couple of years at Kentucky?? Do you think good ol Tubby wins a Championship without the ground work Rick had laid?? Did you forget that players like Tracy McGrady and Dirk had considered Kentucky? Do you remember players like Elton Brand, Corry Maggette, Steve Avery, and possibly Trajon Langdon on Rick's radar???? Cal has done it in today's day and age which is phenomenal but let's be honest, Rick built Kentucky from the ground up and had finally put himself in position to get the best of the best year in and year out himself.

You can point out all the stats you want but how you going to deny some of the kids out of Kentucky that have came to UK and helped us win time and time again?Your really going to sit here and tell me they where built up to be something they weren't?? Mabye not HALL OF FAME NBA PLAYERS but great college players and i am damn proud of the what they contributed to the Kentucky tradition.

I like Caliapari but i refuse to put all my all my eggs in one basket for a coach that has 1 (let me repeat) 1 TOTAL CHAMPIONSHIP?? Do you think John Calipari invented the game of basketball????? Maybe Cal could have won a few more if he would had developed some 4 year guys to be great role players to mix with his Superstars, that's what Wisconsin did. That's why our 38-1 doesn't mean nothing unless we are happy and just glad to be there smh......

Put it to you this way, if a Kentucky kid is good enough to be recruited and play for the Cats, i am going to pull probaly a little more harder for him that perhaps some of the out of state kids. Doesn't matter if he's white, black, or whatever, i want to see the state kids do well. The one and done's love Kentucky but do they really know what it's all about to play basketball at Kentucky? I bet the state kids do. It's something they live with before, during, and after it's all said and done. Reality, some are lucky to be on the team and they are fine with that. Still, you get a kid like D. Willis with unique skills for his size and D. Hawkins who's a ball hawk and you can't tell me they are not good enough to play and contribute.

Anyways, we could go back and forth on this all day, all week, the next decade. I do get your point and i don't blame you, i would play the percentages too. Still, sometimes the best players in the world from a ability and potential aspect just don't get in a year or two in college. Is it better to have a well seasoned above avearge role players who knows exactly what to do or have a young all world talent that's trying to figure it all out on the fly??? Not every freshman is going to get down like Wall, Davis, MKG, or Towns. You can have all the ability in the world but if you don't know what your doing, your actually hurting your team.....

[Wonderstruck]

I'm sorry, did Wisconsin win the title this year?

For all these great role players mixed in with superstars that they had, last I checked, they didn't win a championship...

[J.Jennings]

I'm sorry, did Wisconsin win the title this year?

For all these great role players mixed in with superstars that they had, last I checked, they didn't win a championship...

But they did beat Kentucky and it's ALL STAR NBA team. Folks can jump up and down and party like 1999 for a 38-1 season but at the end of the day, it's no different than losing to Uconn last season in the Championship game. Cats failed and we had mad talent, experience, and players at every position. Will Coach Cal be so convinced next time that he won't even watch game film on the opponent????

How many players from Uconn's Championship team are playing in the NBA now? What about Louisville's Championship team? Is Luke Han**************** playing in the NBA?

[Wonderstruck]

But they did beat Kentucky and it's ALL STAR NBA team. Folks can jump up and down and party like 1999 for a 38-1 season but at the end of the day, it's no different than losing to Uconn last season in the Championship game. Cats failed and we had mad talent, experience, and players at every position. Will Coach Cal be so convinced next time that he won't even watch game film on the opponent????

How many players from Uconn's Championship team are playing in the NBA now? What about Louisville's Championship team? Is Luke Han**************** playing in the NBA?

I don't disagree. But for all of this talk you're giving about Wisconsin and their great white ballers, and role players, and guys like Kaminsky going from nothing to awesome, they didn't win the title just like Kentucky didn't win the title. So what difference does it make in the end?

[Joneslab]

Wisconsin was a very good team, though. Certainly the best Kentucky had played all year. JWORLD's arguments about NBA talent wildly miss the point: you need to have NBA talent at key positions, which Wisconsin did.

Louisville did in 2013, but that was a different deal as they went through a weaker field than the one Duke just went through. But still that UofL team had three or four guys who would play on NBA teams, and that's basically what Wisconsin just had. Gorgui Dieng just had a pretty good year with the T'Wolves, and if you watched that UofL team they fed him the ball with regularity.

Sometimes a guy doesn't make it in the NBA for whatever reason but is a stud in college. Russ Smith, etc.

But if you don't have NBA talent you're not going to do much in this game. There are outliers but this sport is about assembling guys who can play at a very high level. No team that has won a title in the modern era was devoid of NBA-caliber players. There are teams that don't have a plethora of them, but what they do is they rotate their team completely around their stars--just like Wisconsin did this past year.

Wisconsin's role players were also very good, but 85% of their game against us had to do with Dekker and Kaminsky playing off of each other. Dekker was the best player on the floor and outside of Towns and maybe Lyles, I think he might be the best pro in that game.

JWORLD always brings up these wistful memories of the Rick Pitino era, but again and again he leaves out the important fact that Pitino's only title team at Kentucky was absolutely stacked with NBA players.

[J.Jennings]

I don't disagree. But for all of this talk you're giving about Wisconsin and their great white ballers, and role players, and guys like Kaminsky going from nothing to awesome, they didn't win the title just like Kentucky didn't win the title. So what difference does it make in the end?

Means Wisconsin's team wasn't as good as our 98 team full of role players...........

[justford]

I think a list of former Kentucky Mr.Basketball players showing their college and professional stats would be beneficial in this discussion.

[Joneslab]

Means Wisconsin's team wasn't as good as our 98 team full of role players...........

??????

Nazr Mohammed is still in the NBA. Jamaal Magloire is among the all-time leaders in this program's history at a couple of key stats. Jeff Sheppard and Wayne Turner, role players? LOL.

You simplify arguments like crazy. Just because a guy isn't an NBA star doesn't make him a "role player."

[Joneslab]

Something about Wayne Turner: he was a star in high school. Many of the records he put up in Boston still stand today.

McDonald's All-American. Parade AA. This is a guy who came to Kentucky with as much clout as anybody the program had brought in since the Hall era. Outside of Ron Mercer and Rod Rhodes, Turner may've been the highest ranked recruit Pitino signed.

"Role player"?

[J.Jennings]

??????

Nazr Mohammed is still in the NBA. Jamaal Magloire is among the all-time leaders in this program's history at a couple of key stats. Jeff Sheppard and Wayne Turner, role players? LOL.

You simplify arguments like crazy. Just because a guy isn't an NBA star doesn't make him a "role player."

Did you forget about Scott Padgett, the white kid from Kentucky that actually played in the NBA a few years more than most had anticipated?


Of course you have to have talent to win, do you think I am flat out stupid that I think a bunch of damn white boys out of the state of Kentucky wearing headbands and sporting tattoos are going to win a National Championship???????????????


Of course we had some NBA players but they did you ever get a sense it was a audition to play in the NBA?? No, they played the role of what they where good at..

Maglore rebounded and block shots, played mind games and intimidated.......... Role player check

Wayne Tuner, played defense and ran the offense to perfection,,, role play check


Nazr Mohammed,, if this same prospect was signed at Kentucky today, would Cal develop and play this kid or would he be Eloy Vargas part 2?????????????


98 Kentucky team didn't have NBA stars but we had players who developed over a period of time and played a role up to the best of there abilities.


I am trying to understand how me lobbying for guys like Willis and Hawkins to have more of a ROLE at Kentucky translates into me wanting a team full of 1 star white guys with a bunch of head bands on???????

Flat out stupid to even suggest that to be honest. But if you want to call me out on that, how's Billy Gillispie working out for you?? How's Tubby Smith working out for you? I argued with you for two years why it was time for Tubby Smith to go to the point that it was ban JWORLD and kick him off the site because he's not a yes man to Tubby Smith.

What happens when the next coach at Kentucky is lucky to land 2 maybe 3 top 40 players in a class. As a Kentucky fan do you just throw up the towel and call it a season before it even begins??? Tell ya what, better hope the next coach has sense of enough to surround his top guys with role players who can make up for the lack of talent and athletes that Cal strongly believes in. If that means recruiting a Kyle Wiltjer because he can shoot, you go get him. You can expect every player to be perfect on defense, shooting, 50 inch verticals, 4.0 speed, and NBA first round guaranteed money...........


Do we win the 98 Championship without the play of a nobody by the name of Cameron Mills? What about Epps and his contributions? Where these guys elite players set in stone to play at the next level? All I can hope for this year is that players like Willis and Hawkins can earn a role and help our team get to the next level. May not ever see the NBA and may be lucky to play 15 minutes a game while at Kentucky. Still, nothing wrong with rooting and cheering these guys on the same way we all cheer on the one and done who come and go so fast it'll make your head swim...............

[Joneslab]

^ There've been very few NBA stars who have ever come through Kentucky. Wall, Davis, Cousins, Antoine Walker maybe--that's about it.

Most players who've come through here have ended up being role players in the NBA. That's the ceiling for 90% of the guys who make it to that league. When you talk NBA stars you're talking a miniscule percentage of guys walking planet Earth.

The "role players" you mention at Kentucky played roles, but they were not role players in that if you took them off those teams, you'd have a radically different team.

Role players in college IMO are guys like Cameron Mills from that era. Allen Edwards. Ramon Harris. Jorts. Darnell Dodson. Marcus Lee.

The players from '98 that you bring up were way more integral.