Kansas vs. Kentucky: Game Thread

[justford]

I believe the days of a program building a dynasty are long gone. To many options for players to choose from and it has been proven that if you are NBA material, it doesn’t really matter which college you choose. Each coach has to recruit for the current year and not for the future. Just my .02 worth.

[Joneslab]

But yes, I believe at one time kids did play for an Indiana or Kentucky because of the name of the team more than individual stats.

I think so too.

I guess where I would disagree though is that there are players now who are doing the same. Maybe just not as many. (Just a note here that I recall hearing the "why won't he recruit Kentucky players?" thing when I was a kid with Pitino. We're talking almost 30 years ago.)

It's easy to cast doubt on that whole dynamic when we're losing. But I would argue that this team isn't losing because they aren't here for Kentucky. They're losing because they simply aren't that good.

[Matt Dillon]

Not bb related, but this goes back to what Bill has been saying about guys like him, Lighthouse and myself remembering a simpler time. I used to be a huge Colt fan and I remember reading about, when the team was in Baltimore, some of the stars could be found in a local bar rubbing elbows with the common man. I can't see that happening much, if at all these days.

[Lighthouse]

This is a trope that is nonsense.

To you,, but not to me!

[Joneslab]

I think remembering it as a simpler time might be more nostalgia speaking, though.

For instance I met a person who was at UK in 1978 and literally couldn't stand the UK basketball team. Detested. She followed football but when she spoke to me about it--20+ years later--she still refused to watch Kentucky basketball because of those guys.

We always think of things in the past as simpler. And, honestly, better. Purer.

I'm not sure that's entirely accurate. It feels like it's true though.

Regarding Cal specifically, he has definitely turned a lot of things about what college sports is supposed to be on its head. A lot of that hasn't really been good for the fanbase who just wants to watch winning basketball AND follow players for the entirety of a traditional career.

However Cal does target something that's important: getting top-flight, elite talent into this program. That will remain after Cal is gone. You'll notice you don't hear a ton of criticism about the "simpler times" when Kentucky is going to Final Fours.

[Joneslab]

Also, it's ironic we're having this conversation when Kentucky has right now one of the most solid people it's ever had in the program in Oscar.

It's also an old team. This isn't a bunch built on the one-and-done model. So the whole thing we're talking about really doesn't apply to this bunch.

[Lighthouse]

I don't think this is true.

When you see them openly weeping after the games you see that many of these guys do want to be at UK. Check out the video of Bam, Fox, and Monk after their NCAA loss. Heartbreaking stuff. I'd put those guys desire to be in that uniform up against almost anyone's.

One thing about your point here is that it simplifies the situation when in fact it could be a both/and rather than an either/or. It's possible--and in fact this is what I think is happening--you have a situation here where many of these players both have a dream of playing in the NBA and playing for UK.

I wouldn't even say it about this team as dysfunctional as they've been. The Tennessee game, where you had guys jubilant after the game and assistants weeping on the sideline with a coach who was pretty much in tears in his postgame press conference is proof that all these guys want to be here and they want to win.

However what does happen sometimes is you get the desire for the NBA outweighing the desire to be at Kentucky. That's happened. It definitely was going on in the COVID year.

Sure, you're right Will. I remember some players who played for Kentucky and was proud to be here. Not sure we have any on this team. Maybe one. When I was growing up, every player was proud to wear a Kentucky Uniform, or at least I thought they did. Pitino's teams seemed to be that way as did Tubby's. Now, I wish for the same attraction of our program instead of playing for themselves knowing, the NBA is a few months away. But every game has changed, there are no more Ernie Banks playing Baseball.

[Joneslab]

Sure, you're right Will. I remember some players who played for Kentucky and was proud to be here. Not sure we have any on this team. Maybe one. When I was growing up, every player was proud to wear a Kentucky Uniform, or at least I thought they did. Pitino's teams seemed to be that way as did Tubby's. Now, I wish for the same attraction of our program instead of playing for themselves knowing, the NBA is a few months away. But every game has changed, there are no more Ernie Banks playing Baseball.

I thought for awhile that they weren't playing hard. That's definitely a pride thing, more or less.

Here recently I don't think that's been the case. I thought they played plenty hard enough to beat Kansas. And honestly didn't play that bad.

This is just a bad mix of players IMO. Not enough talent for one. That's a big deal.

They aren't a terrible team, just sort of blah. Mediocre, essentially. I still think they can put it together and have an okay season.

But I blame all that more on the coach than the players. I also think losing two or three HUGE players off last season's team has hamstrung us.

[Dwight Schrute]

Not bb related, but this goes back to what Bill has been saying about guys like him, Lighthouse and myself remembering a simpler time. I used to be a huge Colt fan and I remember reading about, when the team was in Baltimore, some of the stars could be found in a local bar rubbing elbows with the common man. I can't see that happening much, if at all these days.

Probably because the common fan would mob the stars and prevent them from just trying to enjoy a beer.

[Dwight Schrute]

Sure, you're right Will. I remember some players who played for Kentucky and was proud to be here. Not sure we have any on this team. Maybe one. When I was growing up, every player was proud to wear a Kentucky Uniform, or at least I thought they did. Pitino's teams seemed to be that way as did Tubby's. Now, I wish for the same attraction of our program instead of playing for themselves knowing, the NBA is a few months away. But every game has changed, there are no more Ernie Banks playing Baseball.

Sure - they also didn't have the internet back in your day where they were constantly getting criticized by every 'common fan' who says they just love the Cayuts.

[Catsrock]

Not bb related, but this goes back to what Bill has been saying about guys like him, Lighthouse and myself remembering a simpler time. I used to be a huge Colt fan and I remember reading about, when the team was in Baltimore, some of the stars could be found in a local bar rubbing elbows with the common man. I can't see that happening much, if at all these days.

Well our basketball players aren’t old enough to be in the bar—legally anyway 😜
But Urban Meyer may be there smacking a few hineys. And there’s Clyde over there passed out in the corner.

But seriously with a camera in everyone’s pocket it’s even more difficult for the famous to hang out with us commoners.

[KentuckyWild2020]

As if we weren’t already depressed …

“If Kentucky doesn’t win a NCAA Tourney game this year, the Class of 2023 at UK will be the first class EVER that will graduate without seeing a NCAA Tournament win.”
- Matt Jones


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[40bill]

The game has just changed, and will continue to do so.

Just as Some of us saw baseball or football differently than our fathers, there is a generational break in how we see the tame.
there will be for a lot of folks as they look back on things.

Some things for us improved the game....freshman eligible, the shot clock, reinstating the dunk as legal....and others.
Others we (I) do not care for...one and done, endless monitor views, and we will wait and see just how much more transfer portal and NIL change it.

Lol...I think Will mentioned it, but at one time the Kentucky Congress was actually kicking around the idea of 'Mr Basketball' getting an automatic schooling EVERY YEAR. Coach Hall really hated that...what if Mr Basketball was a center every year, or guard...or simply wasn't as good as a Mashburn, Issel, Grevey or dozens other out of state kids.

[Joneslab]

Some things for us improved the game....freshman eligible, the shot clock, reinstating the dunk as legal....and others.
Others we (I) do not care for...one and done, endless monitor views, and we will wait and see just how much more transfer portal and NIL change it.

When I was a kid this was going on. Maybe this is why I'm really hesitant to go into "back in my day" mode. My wife and I were talking just last night about how we had to listen to the games when we were 8 or 9 years old because Kentucky literally wasn't allowed to be on television.*

* Unless you wanted to stay up and watch the game "on delay," which occasionally we did.

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[Catsrock]

​I gotta follow up that garbage with a good one from my early childhood