Kentucky vs. Vandy: Game Thread

[JFCats22]

Allen probably played too well against Miss St. They didn’t know who he was. They didn’t bother closing out on him until it was too late. So he hit 7 of 10 threes (if I remember correctly). Ever since then any time he’s in a game his guy stays glued to him and he simply cannot get a shot off. Not quick enough or crafty enough to create his own. And lord knows we’re not running anyone off a screen for anything outside the paint.

I argued as much as anyone for him to get a chance while no one on the court could hit a shot. At this point I think he’s not bringing anything to the table when he gets in. He was actually in briefly last night. But it still aggravates me that Cal has never acknowledged Boston’s defense is worse than Allen’s. You can have Allen in playing so-so defense and not shooting or you can have Boston in playing ZERO defense a shooting all night but shoots 25% on a good night. Cal goes with the latter for 28 minutes a game because he was a 5 star recruit.

Not true at all regarding Boston. He’s not a great defender but he is significantly better than Allen. Allen is the worst on the team.

Look at the DRtg and Defensive win share per player.

https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/schools/kentucky/2021.html

[Joneslab]

Boston started out really bad in all facets. Seems to’ve gotten better but he isn’t going to go out there and lock anybody down or anything.

The whole team is struggling right now to defend and I would imagine a reason is there’s been such an emphasis in practice on scoring that we’ve started to neglect defense a little.

If Kentucky could somehow pair what we’ve seen offensively to the solid defensive team they were early on, you might see a run in Nashville. But there’s no way to count on it because we’ve only seen one complete game all year: in Gainesville.

[Dwight Schrute]

Kentucky fans have always had an obsession with "pure shooters." And they've always had an obsession with Kentucky natives.

The first part of this isn't really true. Tubby deserved all the flack he got about not recruiting someone like Chris Lofton who went on to become a star at Tennessee. I don't care about pure shooters as much as, I don't know, the ability to hit a 3 at all. Whether he's a Kentucky kid or not is secondary to me as to whether we can have anyone on the roster who A.) Isn't new to the program and B.) Can hit an open shot.

IF he transfers it'll be like the 5th year in a row Cal has run off a kid who can play and get better because of his insistence on playing a bunch of people who are super athletic.

A kid doesn't have to be an all world guy to make a difference - he just has to be someone the defenses respect enough to not just pack it in.

[Joneslab]

The first part of this isn't really true.

What do you mean it isn’t true? Of course it is.

Whether it makes sense logically or not is a different conversation. But if I had a dollar for every time somebody posted about our lack of shooters on these boards I’d be rich. And that’s going back to like ‘99.

The reasons are many, one being there’s always been a desire in the fanbase to return to the early Pitino days, when we were launching countless threes and everybody was a threat. There’s definitely a nostalgia element involved.

There’s also been this belief for the last few years that we’re more interested in athletes than basketball players. My friend tells me Iowa is a common talking point on Matt Jones’ show. That isn’t a coincidence.

[Dwight Schrute]

What do you mean it isn’t true? Of course it is.

Whether it makes sense logically or not is a different conversation. But if I had a dollar for every time somebody posted about our lack of shooters on these boards I’d be rich. And that’s going back to like ‘99.

The reasons are many, one being there’s always been a desire in the fanbase to return to the early Pitino days, when we were launching countless threes and everybody was a threat. There’s definitely a nostalgia element involved.

There’s also been this belief for the last few years that we’re more interested in athletes than basketball players. My friend tells me Iowa is a common talking point on Matt Jones’ show. That isn’t a coincidence.

Shooters =/= pure shooters. I listen to KSR on a somewhat regular basis - they talk about Iowa as a model for how college basketball has changed. That Iowa can be a team full of unathletic white guys and win games.

[Joneslab]

The pure shooter is what UK fans dream of though.

This team is different so they’re an outlier. But even on teams that are average from outside fans will ask why we don’t have shooters.

This year, sure, we’ve been searching for anybody. But just generally Kentucky fans have publicly wondered for years about why we don’t have that lights out guy.

With some of Cal’s teams this has been a legitimate beef. But sometimes it comes off to me like pining for a different style—or maybe a different era.

[GOCAT15]

Everyone is looking for things to blame this season on.....Covid not allowing players to get acclimated, Cal not playing who he should be playing, letting Clarke secretly opt out of the season, etc. Bottom line, this team just isn't as great as we thought they would be. Everyone thought that this would be a three headed monster freshman class, and Jackson is the only one playing up to that standard and it took him awhile to get there. I for one thought Sarr would be contributing on a much higher and consistent level and although Brooks has gotten better, he's not a guy that's going to carry a team like some were making him out to be. As for Askew, he's young and probably wasn't quite ready to be thrown into the spotlight that is a UK point guard, especially on a struggling team but I for one am looking forward to him next season.

We all dreamt of a lineup of Sarr, Jackson, Boston, Clarke and Askew, with Mintz and Brooks right behind them on the bench. Then with some foul trouble you would see some Ware and Toppin and maybe even some Allen in some blowout games. I may be speaking for myself but that was what I was expecting with the hype of this incoming class/transfers.

But now we are starting to hit some three's and unfortunately after his one blowout game the secret was out on Allen. Now he struggles to get a shot and has really taken some bad shots and missed terribly bad a number of times in the last five games, I mean like airball bad. I think he is great shooter but now he is pressing because he knows the only way he stays in a game is if he is hitting threes. But for him to transfer after his freshman season, especially in a season that he really wasn't expected to contribute is ridiculous. If playing at Kentucky was his dream then I hope he stays because he can turn into a contributor and a fan favorite.

[Joneslab]

But for him to transfer after his freshman season, especially in a season that he really wasn't expected to contribute is ridiculous..

I agree.

But Kentucky has been in this boat with other players recently. Unsurprisingly they're the lower-ranked players.

You could make a case that Cal doesn't give them enough love by playing the blue chippers over them. It could be that the players always know that they're apt to be recruited over.

But whatever the case it has become an issue and in my mind for us to really return we need to both keep those borderline NBA players and the players who we're losing to transfer and who could help us in the future.

[GOCAT15]

I agree.

But Kentucky has been in this boat with other players recently. Unsurprisingly they're the lower-ranked players.

You could make a case that Cal doesn't give them enough love by playing the blue chippers over them. It could be that the players always know that they're apt to be recruited over.

But whatever the case it has become an issue and in my mind for us to really return we need to both keep those borderline NBA players and the players who we're losing to transfer and who could help us in the future.

Definitely, you have to have that happy middle ground. I guess I just wonder what these players like Baker, Juzang, (hopefully won't be adding Allen to this list) think when they come here though? I can't imagine Cal promises them gametime, so you would think their mindset is I am coming here to go up against great players on a daily basis and get to be a part of a historic program. And after years of hard work hope to be a contributor to a team that has a chance at a final four. If they aren't thinking that, why not just go to a vanderbilt or western kentucky where you may very well be one of the better players in the program and get 30+ minutes a game and get to play in front of a crowd of 8,000 people on a good night and never be on tv....

[Lighthouse]

Great game from Jacob Toppin. Man I think we have a gem in that guy.

Officiating was possibly worst I’ve seen this year. The charge on Brooks was cartoonishly absurd. To even think about rewarding the defense on that is an affront on the sport of basketball.

Actually with the way charges are called today, I thought it was a good call. Now, with the way the rule is written, the defense was moving when Brooks left the floor. The official was in correct position and should have seen the entire play.

The foul on Mintz at the end was and ok call, but could have been a no call because of limited contact. Again, the missed so many walks it's pathetic.

[Dwight Schrute]

The pure shooter is what UK fans dream of though.

This team is different so they’re an outlier. But even on teams that are average from outside fans will ask why we don’t have shooters.

This year, sure, we’ve been searching for anybody. But just generally Kentucky fans have publicly wondered for years about why we don’t have that lights out guy.

With some of Cal’s teams this has been a legitimate beef. But sometimes it comes off to me like pining for a different style—or maybe a different era.

Perhaps, but I don't want a different style altogether, or even one specifically. I just want a team that can score enough points to win consistently. To do that in 2021 you need to be able to hit shots.

Until recently, Dontaie Allen and sometimes Olivier Sarr was the only person who could hit a shot that wasn't at the free throw line. This team has learned to score now so perhaps the issue is moot, but it's going to be the same thing next year. Cal recruiting a player who can shoot and then not allowing them to play through the mistakes because they aren't someone who's gonna be a top 14 draft pick.

[Blue Heaven]

Didn't see the game but was looking like Cats were gonna cruise. Last score I saw was 23-8. This team has been in every game this season so these last two clutch wins is refreshing. They seem to be "getting it" here in some ways. I hope it's not too late for that.

[Dwight Schrute]

But now we are starting to hit some three's and unfortunately after his one blowout game the secret was out on Allen. Now he struggles to get a shot and has really taken some bad shots and missed terribly bad a number of times in the last five games, I mean like airball bad. I think he is great shooter but now he is pressing because he knows the only way he stays in a game is if he is hitting threes. But for him to transfer after his freshman season, especially in a season that he really wasn't expected to contribute is ridiculous. If playing at Kentucky was his dream then I hope he stays because he can turn into a contributor and a fan favorite.

He does force shots - that could be helped by maybe running an offense designed to get open shots behind the 3 point line instead of letting a guy fire up a 16 foot long 2.

Still, if he can't sniff the floor for (please for the love of god let it be) the worst UK team in a generation, when will he?

[Lighthouse]

But this team sucks at defense. Vandy scored 78 points last night. We routinely give up 75-80 points. How many games would we have won if Allen had the chance to play through mistakes and hit shots? I don't know but we might be better than 7-17.

Cal's going to drive off Allen because of how there's two standards at play here. If you're BJ Boston you get to play through your mistakes, if you're Dontai Allen you don't. If you're an athletic freak you get time to figure it out, otherwise you don't.

And he may be driving other Kentucky kids off too.

[Lighthouse]

Not true at all regarding Boston. He’s not a great defender but he is significantly better than Allen. Allen is the worst on the team.

Look at the DRtg and Defensive win share per player.

https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb...ucky/2021.html

I totally disagree with this. I can't remember another kid who loafs and gets beat on defense more than Boston. He plays only because he can score points, (and he has to take a ton of shots to do so) and is an adequate rebounder and that's it. When Allen plays he get's beat on defense but it's not because he doesn't hustle and try to defend. He's just very quick and usually guards someone who is.