Cal on call in show

[Lighthouse]

He’s flat out lied about it.

Maybe, but he and few others know what's going on with this kid. I took his "throwing under the bus" comments as a last ditch effort to motivate the kid, but it obviously didn't work. Clarke and his family are the only one's making decisions at this point and Cal is caught in the middle. He should have seen this coming, but for some reason didn't. I see where calling Cal out for lying is necessary, but we've all been caught in a squeeze and tried to wiggle out.

[Catsrock]

Yeah, I'm going to say he did. Grew up in Dorcester, Mass. Poorest community in Boston. Tough area.

Personally I'm concerned about this, just as I was about all the others who clearly grew up poor and see basketball as a way out. But there's a threshold for my concern. I can only go so far. When the program starts to be about pulling kids out of generational poverty at the expense of everything else, that's a problem.

Ironically (about) the only players who Cal has “gotten rich” are the ones who came in over-rated and Cal “sold” them to his NBA connections after a year on campus, they got their rookie contract and then disappeared. In other words they “duped” the NBA out of a contract when they weren’t NBA quality.

Why would I say this?

Do we actually credit Cal/UK for getting Wall/AD/KAT caliber players big pro money? Give me a break. How about the “diamond in the rough” types (such as Herro/SGA)? I credit Cal for letting them shine as freshmen—Tubby would have made them wait. But did a couple months at UK really make those guys the players they were by December or were they actually under-rated coming in. I have a feeling they were pretty little good upon arrival.

For a family in true need the quicker a kid gets paid the better. But if a kid comes in 25th in his class, jumps in the draft and gets drafted 28th—how much more $ would he have made if he played another year of college ball, got better and were then drafted 10th?

Since the beginning of Cal’s tenure I’ve wanted to see Cal turn more borderline players into pros by teaching them for 3 or 4 years—a la Darius Miller—the true unicorn of our program. Those are the ones Cal should take pride in “getting them rich.” He may not have grown up poor—but he may have never made the NBA without Cal.

As far as getting kids a rookie contract who didn’t belong in the NBA—Teague for example—nice job. Should have gotten a degree.

[Joneslab]

I credit Cal for keeping all the egos in check on those great teams. That isn't easy. We've seen a lot of coaches really struggle when they have elite talent because those coaches can't hold them accountable and everything breaks down into AAU ball.

And I also thought last year was a great job, as that roster wasn't a peak UK roster.

We also forget that in 2011 Cal took a team with six guys to the brink of a title. I thought that was a very underrated coaching job.

So he's done some really good things. But still, the system remains, and the system has clearly started to devour itself. It's really not even useful to get into this discussion about whether the players are ready to leave early for the NBA. That's neither here nor there because the system is the problem, not the individual players. We can go round and round all day about whether, say, Ashton Hagans should go. But Hagans is just a byproduct; the machine Cal built is the real culprit and until it's fixed, we'll continue having these types of discussions.

[Dwight Schrute]

Ironically (about) the only players who Cal has “gotten rich” are the ones who came in over-rated and Cal “sold” them to his NBA connections after a year on campus, they got their rookie contract and then disappeared. In other words they “duped” the NBA out of a contract when they weren’t NBA quality.

Why would I say this?

Do we actually credit Cal/UK for getting Wall/AD/KAT caliber players big pro money? Give me a break. How about the “diamond in the rough” types (such as Herro/SGA)? I credit Cal for letting them shine as freshmen—Tubby would have made them wait. But did a couple months at UK really make those guys the players they were by December or were they actually under-rated coming in. I have a feeling they were pretty little good upon arrival.

For a family in true need the quicker a kid gets paid the better. But if a kid comes in 25th in his class, jumps in the draft and gets drafted 28th—how much more $ would he have made if he played another year of college ball, got better and were then drafted 10th?

Since the beginning of Cal’s tenure I’ve wanted to see Cal turn more borderline players into pros by teaching them for 3 or 4 years—a la Darius Miller—the true unicorn of our program. Those are the ones Cal should take pride in “getting them rich.” He may not have grown up poor—but he may have never made the NBA without Cal.

As far as getting kids a rookie contract who didn’t belong in the NBA—Teague for example—nice job. Should have gotten a degree.

This kind of undersells Cal's ability to develop players. Hard to say if Herro or SGA or Booker or Eric Bledsoe would've been pros without Cal - probably, but likely not after 1 year. Also not sure about Immanuel Quickley or PJ Washington, particularly the former.

I would be interested to see the percentage of players who get second contracts versus those of other coaches.

[Joneslab]

I always thought Cal was one of the best scouts in the world. Could locate talented players--inside and outside the top 10--as well as anybody.

But it's one thing to locate them, another to land them. The situation at UK has become much more difficult now that we are whiffing on our top choices.

[Dwight Schrute]

I always thought Cal's best ability was his ability to not have to deal with this nonsense. DeMarcus Cousins is a difficult personality and I'm sure there's things behind the scenes we have no clue about, but that year was remarkably smooth for a guy who was known to be difficult. I would say there's a pretty strong relationship between starting to whiff on players and starting to deal with attitudes.

But I don't think you can blame Clarke on whiffing on our top choices - he was a top choice and was pretty highly coveted.

[Joneslab]

Clarke was a top choice but he really wasn't a best of the best sort. We were getting those at the beginning and getting many of our second choices.

Now we're missing on top choices, getting some of the second, and then having to furiously patch together a roster from transfers and hope like heck we get maybe one or two impact returners.

Cal isn't doing that deep scouting that he used to do, either, as evidenced by guys like Khalil Whitney and Boston turning out to be total duds. Cal was completely staying away from that kind of thing early on. It's begun to plague him a little--and I have to think a reason is that he may not have the fire he did a decade ago.

[Joneslab]

What's interesting about the 2020 recruiting class is how few gamechangers it really had.

Cunningham, Mobley, Green, Suggs, Sharife Cooper...and? Just a really ragged class all the way around.

Which is why Kentucky can't exist in this world where we just bank on recruiting classes saving us. Too much risk involved in that game nowadays. We need more of a sure thing, but it's likely not going to happen anytime soon. This offseason the only way to do it is to really hammer the transfer market. Trouble is, everybody is going to be doing that same thing. Crowded boat.

[Blue Heaven]

Maybe, but he and few others know what's going on with this kid. I took his "throwing under the bus" comments as a last ditch effort to motivate the kid, but it obviously didn't work. Clarke and his family are the only one's making decisions at this point and Cal is caught in the middle. He should have seen this coming, but for some reason didn't. I see where calling Cal out for lying is necessary, but we've all been caught in a squeeze and tried to wiggle out.

Sure we have all lied, but none of us are running a business like UK basketball. Not excusing it, but it’s a terrible business model. Cal thinks the fans are stupid. Nothing could be further from the truth.

[Blue Heaven]

Clarke was a top choice but he really wasn't a best of the best sort. We were getting those at the beginning and getting many of our second choices.

Now we're missing on top choices, getting some of the second, and then having to furiously patch together a roster from transfers and hope like heck we get maybe one or two impact returners.

Cal isn't doing that deep scouting that he used to do, either, as evidenced by guys like Khalil Whitney and Boston turning out to be total duds. Cal was completely staying away from that kind of thing early on. It's begun to plague him a little--and I have to think a reason is that he may not have the fire he did a decade ago.

Whitney wasn’t the sure thing like Boston was supposed to be. I believe what we have been seeing is guys mailing it in when things don’t go their way. Not just a terrible decision for the team, but for their lives in general. When the crap hits the fan just cower in the corner and quit. Folks who do that have problems beyond sports.

[Joneslab]

I did see somebody say really late in the recruiting season that year that he thought Whitney was the best player in the class.

There's a really fine line between "elite" and "really good" when it comes to recruiting. Generally we only know which is which after the player plays a season in college.

There have been guys who weren't ranked super high at UK who've been awesome. The obvious are Shai and Herro and Bledsoe and Ulis, but you also have Doron Lamb, who for my money is one of the best guards we've ever had here.

So you never know until it all shakes out. One thing though that's obvious is that Cal and his staff have targeted a handful of players the last three to five years they've missed on. That's starting with Trae Young and moving through Wiseman and into Zion and finally to Cade Cunningham. Those kinds of players are the types who drag the others forward. Boston was definitely supposed to be one of those but that's why I go back to scouting; I wonder if there are things Cal is just missing with players now that he didn't a decade ago.

[Blue Heaven]

^ For one, my daughter looks stronger than Boston. None of guys looks to have gotten any stronger or tougher. Where is Rock Oliver when you need him.

[Dwight Schrute]

I admit to not following recruiting as closely anymore, but it seems like a ton of people missed on Boston. I remember seeing him described as a

[Joneslab]

Boston is physically weak...but he's also mentally weak in that he shies away from any and all contact. Has to come back. He'll do things sometimes that are really nice but most of the time he's just drifting around out there doing nothing.

[justford]

Today’s players have usually been the best at their school or in the district or region they play in. When confronted with adversity such as other athletes as good if not better some don’t know how to react to it. As a coach you hope they accept the challenge and get better. Seems like the ones we have been getting recently are the ones that back down and want to give up. The injuries (if fake), home sickness, crying on the sidelines, and tantrums are ways some handle the atmosphere that is UK basketball. Sad but just the way it is in my humble opinion.

I heard an opinion that whatever is wrong with this team began with the Fletcher situation. Maybe so or it had nothing at all to do with our woes. Just a weird season filled with more questions than answers.