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The Good, The Bad, The Ugly: Utah Edition

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  • Joneslab
    Senior Member
    • Oct 2014
    • 39604

    #1

    The Good, The Bad, The Ugly: Utah Edition

    The Good

    * Bring the Fight. Friends, it was an ugly night. I set the alarm for 5:43 a.m. for my daily commute with great and tragic regret. Like all the great heroes of yore, I stayed up until the bitter end, filled with hope like I'm sure you were that UK might be able to find the old magic. Alas, it did not happen for the basketball gods are cruel and we have a mediocre team, but I will say that UK showed some grit and fight late in that game. You just wish they would have shown that same energy in the first few minutes.

    * Where Have You Been, Mr. Maxey? We've been waiting for the Michigan St. Maxey to show himself, and last night we saw a little of that. Yes, he couldn't hit the proverbial broad side of a barn from outside, but that same juice and explosiveness we saw in the Garden back in November revealed itself last night. For Kentucky to be better than a middling SEC team we have to get that Maxey every time out.

    The Bad

    * Show Your Face. One thing that jumps out to me about UK that I've noticed ever since the Michigan St. game: we have no identity. Are we a power team? A driving team? A team that wants to drive and kick? A defensive-minded team? It's impossible to say because we seem to have no idea who we are. We do things sometimes and then drop them as the game goes on. We find something that works, do it for two possessions, then don't see it again. This really becomes problematic when you're in a game like we were in last night, where you need somebody to hit a clutch bucket. It was obvious the Cats were struggling to figure out who needed the ball in those late-game situations. That's the byproduct of a young team, but it also says something about our overall team talent.

    * (Don't) Feed the Bigs. One of the fears we all had about UK showed itself last night: the lack of capable big men. Montgomery showed some flashes, and may've needed the ball more (see the point above about no identity), but Richards struggled again, really laboring to do much of anything and then getting beat on a really bad defensive play by Timmy Allen late in the game. (Montgomery also blew a late defensive rotation that ended up in a dagger three from the corner.) Not a good night for Kentucky's tall guys.

    * Come to Play. It was pretty obvious Kentucky wasn't playing with the necessary intensity three minutes into the game. Whether it was because of the late start or because we were too ****************y, we just didn't bring it the way you have to at this level. Some Kentucky teams under Cal have had the talent to overcome stuff like that. This team is simply not as good.

    The Ugly

    * Tell Me, When Did You Mute Bill Walton? For me it was at about the 8:00 mark.

    * The Gang That Couldn't Shoot Straight. 2-17 from three. It can't get any worse. Repeat that to yourself in a dark closet, preferably with your knees pulled to your chest. IT CAN'T GET ANY WORSE. Maybe it will help you as it did me. And the cold, bitter kick in the stomach came when Immanuel Quickley, God help him, lined up a crucial three in the corner late in the game...only to have his toes on the line. You couldn't help but laugh.

    * Return of the Blarge. The block/charge debacle late in the game was mysterious, but because I had the TV muted I was only getting to watch the horror silently unfold. I assume they went to the monitor to check to see if the kid was in the restricted area, and when they did they overturned the call. It was one of those things you just have to shake your head at (I didn't think it was a well-called game overall, maybe the poorest of the year), but I'll also say this: if you can watch that game and try to make the argument that Kentucky deserved to win then I would politely ask you to take another look.

    * Magic 8-Ball, Tell Me: Are We Good? Take our your favorite magic 8-ball and give it a hard shake. As you do ask it this question, but whisper it softly so nobody will hear: Is Kentucky good this year? The black liquid (what is that stuff in there, anyway, motor oil?) sloshes and churns and the little plastic pyramid rests close to the glass, and you squint to read your answer: The answer I give you is NO. And that's the correct answer, as much as it pains me to say. Kentucky is, indeed, not good this year.

    * Depth of Talent. One reason we're not good: not enough good players. No need to go on about that because I think it's obvious to everyone. Doesn't mean we'll be in the NIT. Doesn't mean we won't win some big games. But it's obvious we just don't have enough overall talent to be a major player even in this diluted field.

    * Horror Awaits. So now we have arguably our two toughest games on the schedule looming, one against our archrival. It's entirely possible that Kentucky could limp into SEC play losers of three in a row. If that happens and with our schedule, the dreaded "NIT" will inevitably be uttered. Kentucky has to find a way to reinvent itself--and fast.
    Last edited by Joneslab; 12-19-2019, 07:23 AM.
  • DA#23
    Administrator
    • Oct 2014
    • 7342

    #2
    We MUST win one of the next two games to keep the fan base from completely turning off and obviously for post season hopes.

    Comment

    • Jload
      Senior Member
      • Sep 2015
      • 2057

      #3
      I watched the speech Cal gave at the first Midnight Madness when he took the job. Lots of excitement and Cal made the fan base some pretty lofty promises. Looking back at that now one must ponder wether he has kept many of them. Plus there is less excitement and passion associated with UK basketball than at any time since I have been a fan. I went to my first UK home game in 1969. UK beat LSU 109 to 96. Maravich had like 40 something points and Isabel had about 30. I had a new hero in Larry Steele. I went to the FDU game and couldn’t help but reflect. UK basketball is in decline and if folks can’t see it then they just aren’t looking. Nobody was happier than me when we hired Cal. He started off like gangbusters but he has lost a step, he has also created a model for the program that is slowly strangling the great tradition at UK. This season will probably be a disaster, for f you can’t shoot, from outside and have no consistent inside presence kind of limits your options to succeed doesn’t it. This is also without doubt the worst freshman class Cal has ever recruited. With the exception of Maxey who is Archie Goodwin redux there isn’t a kid that will sniff an NBA roster. That said how many of theses kids bolt after the season. Finally I am so sick of Cal telling me how many years he has been doing this after every loss.The “stuff happens” defense is getting rather old for me. Cal is the coach at the University of Kentucky and he makes millions of dollars to do it, saying I’m an old hand and these things happen no longer cuts it

      Comment

      • Joneslab
        Senior Member
        • Oct 2014
        • 39604

        #4
        Originally posted by Jload
        I watched the speech Cal gave at the first Midnight Madness when he took the job. Lots of excitement and Cal made the fan base some pretty lofty promises. Looking back at that now one must ponder wether he has kept many of them. Plus there is less excitement and passion associated with UK basketball than at any time since I have been a fan. I went to my first UK home game in 1969. UK beat LSU 109 to 96. Maravich had like 40 something points and Isabel had about 30. I had a new hero in Larry Steele. I went to the FDU game and couldn’t help but reflect. UK basketball is in decline and if folks can’t see it then they just aren’t looking. Nobody was happier than me when we hired Cal. He started off like gangbusters but he has lost a step, he has also created a model for the program that is slowly strangling the great tradition at UK. This season will probably be a disaster, for f you can’t shoot, from outside and have no consistent inside presence kind of limits your options to succeed doesn’t it. This is also without doubt the worst freshman class Cal has ever recruited. With the exception of Maxey who is Archie Goodwin redux there isn’t a kid that will sniff an NBA roster. That said how many of theses kids bolt after the season. Finally I am so sick of Cal telling me how many years he has been doing this after every loss.The “stuff happens” defense is getting rather old for me. Cal is the coach at the University of Kentucky and he makes millions of dollars to do it, saying I’m an old hand and these things happen no longer cuts it
        Not sure it's fair to hold up the current version of anything to what things felt like when we were kids.

        It all seemed so magical when we were young. Obviously nothing now is going to compare to the feeling of things back then.

        I think saying Kentucky basketball is in "decline" is a bit of an exaggeration. I mean it sounds good as an argument but it sort of falls flag upon inspection.

        However, it is true that things are way different nowadays and Cal has brought a lot of heat onto himself with the one-and-done thing. The way he runs the program lends itself to really intense fan grumbling when things start to go bad. I completely get that.

        Comment

        • Jload
          Senior Member
          • Sep 2015
          • 2057

          #5
          Will are you telling me Rupp is as electric this season as it was 10 years ago.Secondly how many fans have you heard say “It just doesn’t feel the same to me anymore”. In my case it’s just about every fan I know. How is that not decline. And yes John Calipari and the model he runs here at UK is the main cause

          Comment

          • Joneslab
            Senior Member
            • Oct 2014
            • 39604

            #6
            Originally posted by Jload
            Will are you telling me Rupp is as electric this season as it was 10 years ago.Secondly how many fans have you heard say “It just doesn’t feel the same to me anymore”. In my case it’s just about every fan I know. How is that not decline. And yes John Calipari and the model he runs here at UK is the main cause
            Things are definitely not the same anymore and I wouldn't argue otherwise.

            That still doesn't mean the program is in decline.

            Each of us can only speak personally about what UK means to them, and obviously we can't glimpse into how other people choose to be a fan. But just for me, I think some of Cal's years have been very fun--in fact two or three of his years are some of the most fun I've ever had watching UK. The tournament run in the Aaron Harrison years were maybe the best time I've ever had watching UK.

            And also, I'm odd because my deepest personal connections are probably to Tubby Smith's teams. As much hell as Tubby catches he often gets a pass from me mostly because I had deep emotional ties to his better teams. Mostly that was about my age and the fact that I played so much basketball myself in high school I couldn't watch a whole lot of the Pitino era, but for whatever reason I loved the Tubby era until it went bad.

            So when we get into nostalgia I don't think that's a good vehicle for the worth of a coach or the health of a program.

            I do agree that Cal can't keep going down this road where he just cobbles together teams and those teams keep failing to get to the Final Four. Clearly he's wearing out his welcome and this team isn't going to do much to help that.

            Comment

            • Dwight Schrute
              Senior Member
              • Oct 2014
              • 18716

              #7
              Part of the problem for me is that it doesn't seem like UK considers the fans anymore at all. I've gotten to where I tune out most of what Cal says because it's all nonsense anyway.

              It seems like anymore all we do are these made for TV things that get us a lot of publicity and leave the fans back home with the scraps. UK charging the prices they do for Evansville and Utah Valley State while playing two of the three marquee non-conference games on a neutral court is bogus. And I do not understand the fascination of playing a game in London next year at all.

              Comment

              • Joneslab
                Senior Member
                • Oct 2014
                • 39604

                #8
                Originally posted by Dwight Schrute
                And I do not understand the fascination of playing a game in London next year at all.
                I think that's about building the UK brand, which in turn cultivates more interest in the program, which in turn brings in blue chip recruits, which theoretically leads to wins.

                So I get it. It's the same logic as Michigan St. playing on an aircraft carrier and UK/Michigan St. trying to break the attendance record at the "Basketbowl" and so on. Also, the NBA has been trying to globalize for years. College basketball is a little behind the times as far as that goes.

                Interestingly if you go back to when Cal was first hired, he talked all the time about China. One of the major things he said in his first days of being hired was that he was looking to extend UK into China. That obviously never happened but at the time it was intriguing to think about.

                This is news to no one but some of the best players in the world are in Europe and Asia. The London game is likely not going to entice some seven foot Brit to sign on at UK but it's still an interesting game.

                And plus, I think the opponent is a good one.

                Comment

                • Jload
                  Senior Member
                  • Sep 2015
                  • 2057

                  #9
                  Originally posted by Will Lavender

                  Things are definitely not the same anymore and I wouldn't argue otherwise.

                  That still doesn't mean the program is in decline.

                  Each of us can only speak personally about what UK means to them, and obviously we can't glimpse into how other people choose to be a fan. But just for me, I think some of Cal's years have been very fun--in fact two or three of his years are some of the most fun I've ever had watching UK. The tournament run in the Aaron Harrison years were maybe the best time I've ever had watching UK.

                  And also, I'm odd because my deepest personal connections are probably to Tubby Smith's teams. As much hell as Tubby catches he often gets a pass from me mostly because I had deep emotional ties to his better teams. Mostly that was about my age and the fact that I played so much basketball myself in high school I couldn't watch a whole lot of the Pitino era, but for whatever reason I loved the Tubby era until it went bad.

                  So when we get into nostalgia I don't think that's a good vehicle for the worth of a coach or the health of a program.

                  I do agree that Cal can't keep going down this road where he just cobbles together teams and those teams keep failing to get to the Final Four. Clearly he's wearing out his welcome and this team isn't going to do much to help that.
                  You make a good point Will but I can’t help but think of a couple of fans I know who were HUGE supporters of UK all of there lives who both told me they could care less at this point. My 35 year old son who was an enormous fan all his life hasn’t watched a game this year. This IS a problem and eventually it will diminish what UK is and always has been, and yes Cal is a big part of the reason for this. My uncle who has gone to games since the late 50’s told me he quit watching UK because he couldn’t keep up with the changing players every year. To me the most exciting time to be a UK fan was at apex of Pitino era, and Cal came close to recapturing that when he first came but that has faded badly.

                  Comment

                  • Joneslab
                    Senior Member
                    • Oct 2014
                    • 39604

                    #10
                    I think the older fans have likely had a problem with Cal from the start, and the reason's obvious: he talks more about making his players rich than he does pleasing the fans.

                    What I would argue is probably that he believes if the players get rich, that's more wins for the program because players who end up getting rich are usually your better college players. But that sort of mentality is going to set well with people who've followed the program for half a century. Heck, it doesn't set well with fans who've followed the program for just a few years. But older fans have been through a lot and feel like they deserve more respect.

                    One thing I don't agree with is the idea that the players are hired guns or something. Even last night, as bad as it was, I saw fight in the players. I really felt like they were passionate about winning. I think it's possible to want to get rich from your basketball talent but also love UK. I would imagine many of Cal's players are in that boat.

                    It would be great though for all of us if we could somehow return to a time when things were like they were twenty/thirty years ago, but I think the genie is out of the bottle at this point. I do think the guy who follows Cal will do it differently; some will love it and some will hate it, but there will be a change with the next coach. NCAA rules are going to force a change.

                    It might be a "be careful what you ask for" type of deal though. I remember how much we hated having no draft picks in the Tubby era. Whether or not he has early entries or not, the next coach at UK has to adopt one part of the Calipari model, and that's recruiting players who have the potential to play at the next level. That's a must.

                    Comment

                    • J.Jennings
                      Banned
                      • Oct 2014
                      • 7005

                      #11
                      We can't shoot the basketball. Meanwhile J. BAKER averaging about 17 a game 43% behind the arc, blows my mind...

                      Comment

                      • J.Jennings
                        Banned
                        • Oct 2014
                        • 7005

                        #12
                        Managed to watch the 1st half, fell asleep at halftime woke up with 13 seconds to go to watch us lose.

                        On a side note, i like Bill Walton, didn't bother me one bit although he did say something in reference to "we like virgins" He crazy

                        Comment

                        • J.Jennings
                          Banned
                          • Oct 2014
                          • 7005

                          #13
                          Funny, i saw a article yesterday prior to the game that Cal says Whitney was the key to our ceiling. If that is the case, pack it up and get ready for next year...

                          Comment

                          • KCKUKFan
                            Senior Member
                            • Nov 2014
                            • 14228

                            #14
                            Another point worth noting is that its not just Kentucky. I think there is a general malaise and disinterest in the sport that has grown over the last couple of years. I used to watch as many games as i could, but now ill only watch Kentucky and the end of whatever game leads us in.

                            And the NBAs popularity has increased in that same time period.

                            Comment

                            • KCKUKFan
                              Senior Member
                              • Nov 2014
                              • 14228

                              #15
                              And Bill Walton is a permanently fried national treasure.

                              I had no idea what he was talking about most of the time last night, but Id take that over Jimmy Dykes' annoying brand of aw shucks earnestness anyday.

                              Comment

                               

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