The Good, The Bad, Kentucky Isn't Good at Basketball Right Now: Utah Valley Edition

[Joneslab]

We're getting wrapped around the axle of numbers when that really isn't the issue. The issue is we just don't have very good players right now.

I agree with this.

I've said for years depth is overrated in college basketball.

But the frontcourt situation this year is outside the norm even before the injuries. The small number of players they targeted in the frontcourt came back to bite them.

[Dwight Schrute]

Part of the problem is we'd hoped EJ would have a PJ like improvement from freshman to sophomore year, and so far that hasn't happened. Who knows if he was playing with a nagging injury or what and that slowed him down a bunch, but so far that hasn't appeared to have happened.

[J.Jennings]

Jimmy Dykes said something last night that i had been thinking for a while, the Kentucky team has no identity on the offensive end, almost feels like that year in and year out if you ask me. Call me wishful but one of the reasons i liked Cal prior to Kentucky is watching Memphis Cal used to press full court, i guess i was wanting Cal to bring that style of basketball back to Kentucky but it never happened.

Anyways, maybe we get healthy with more bodies and things get back to normal but i still say we have a PG problem, Hagans looks awful. I don't know if he is trying to prove he can score or not but stick to defense and moving the ball, please stop trying to showcase for the NBA...

But now that i think about , Cal has not style of play, he just recruits who he can get and has to adjust yearly to a freshman, he doesn't recruit players to actually play his style of ball in my opinion, he has no style, just be athletic and be able to play man to man defense...

[J.Jennings]

The thing about the rosters is who exactly do you add? They did try to add Kerry Blackshear and N'faly Dante, and neither of which worked out.

If we just add guys for the sake of filling out scholarship players, I'm not sure what the benefit is unless you're just looking for practice bodies.

But the problem is we are always getting destroyed by some no name one star recruit from another team, why can't we get bodies or players like that to fill the void and stick around for a while. I suppose none of those guys want to come here to sit watch for 4 years and get recruited over year to year so nobody wants to be here and Cal doesn't want them either.

In my opinion the way to go is to recruit your glue guys you can develop and keep around 3 to 4 years and then insert those top two to three freshman year in and year out to blend with a veteran team....

[Joneslab]

Jimmy Dykes said something last night that i had been thinking for a while, the Kentucky team has no identity on the offensive end, almost feels like that year in and year out if you ask me. Call me wishful but one of the reasons i liked Cal prior to Kentucky is watching Memphis Cal used to press full court, i guess i was wanting Cal to bring that style of basketball back to Kentucky but it never happened.

Anyways, maybe we get healthy with more bodies and things get back to normal but i still say we have a PG problem, Hagans looks awful. I don't know if he is trying to prove he can score or not but stick to defense and moving the ball, please stop trying to showcase for the NBA...

I don't think Memphis pressed much. At least they didn't when I watched them.

Saw them live in the Garden with that Derek Rose team and I don't know if they pressed at all. Think your memory is faulty there.

Cal does very similar things he did when he was there. Same sets, same offense, same style. Drive the ball at the basket, kick to shooters, etc.

When he has good players it looks great. Not-so-good players it doesn't look great.

One issue with Cal's teams that was a constant at Memphis and UK is that he loves athletes. Tends to rate defense higher than offense. The tradeoff there is that you don't have a lot of truly gifted shooters at times. You've got guys who are long and who can jump and move laterally, but often those guys aren't your elite offensive players. That's the case with this team; just not a lot of really gifted, preternaturally good offensive players. No system is going to help guys like Kahlil Whitney out because he has so many limitations right now.

Another issue with Cal is that he's running a pro system. There aren't a lot of screens and off-ball action like you see at schools that have three- and four-year players. You have to be able to handle the ball and make plays in space at Kentucky. Again, this is something that really works when you have elite talent. When you have not-so-elite talent it can be really hard to watch because guys are constantly being put in position to do things they aren't comfortable with.

The good news is that in Cal's tenure at UK most of the time (not always) the players do get it by the end and they are making those plays.

[Joneslab]

Here's Memphis and Kansas in the 2008 title game. There's a little token man pressure for Memphis that I see from watching a couple minutes, but nothing different than what UK does now:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lz7IsoOdHm0

Offensively they're running that circle set UK runs. A lot of ball-screening, which is a difference with what we see these days with UK, but the sets are similar.

The difference is that Memphis had a couple of elite players on that team. They also had a couple of really good shooters with Douglas-Roberts and Anderson. This UK team hasn't shown that it can shoot. Hard to run any set or have any identity when you've got clankers all over the court.

[J.Jennings]

I don't think Memphis pressed much. At least they didn't when I watched them.

Saw them live in the Garden with that Derek Rose team and I don't know if they pressed at all. Think your memory is faulty there.

Cal does very similar things he did when he was there. Same sets, same offense, same style. Drive the ball at the basket, kick to shooters, etc.

When he has good players it looks great. Not-so-good players it doesn't look great.

One issue with Cal's teams that was a constant at Memphis and UK is that he loves athletes. Tends to rate defense higher than offense. The tradeoff there is that you don't have a lot of truly gifted shooters at times. You've got guys who are long and who can jump and move laterally, but often those guys aren't your elite offensive players. That's the case with this team; just not a lot of really gifted, preternaturally good offensive players. No system is going to help guys like Kahlil Whitney out because he has so many limitations right now.

Another issue with Cal is that he's running a pro system. There aren't a lot of screens and off-ball action like you see at schools that have three- and four-year players. You have to be able to handle the ball and make plays in space at Kentucky. Again, this is something that really works when you have elite talent. When you have not-so-elite talent it can be really hard to watch because guys are constantly being put in position to do things they aren't comfortable with.

The good news is that in Cal's tenure at UK most of the time (not always) the players do get it by the end and they are making those plays.

They did, i remember it just like yesterday. Remember sitting in my old bosses office back in the day on a Saturday watching Memphis with D. Rose and watching them press from the get go. He looked at me and said "that's the coach you guys need to get" and he's a big Louisville fan.....

Maybe Cal is running a pro system but if he really wants to go all in with the PRO system, he needs to adapt to the pro game, stretch 4 and 5's, guys at the one two and 3 who can flat out shoot the basketball.

Here's some food for thought. Yes the Golden State Warriors have two of the greatest shooters in the game so everyone assumes they just outscore you and shoot the most 3's. In reality, they do shoot a lot of 3's but it works because of great and i mean great ball movement, not because they have the best shooters and shoot the most 3's. Some teams shoot more 3's but with a combination of no ball movement and not so good shooters, teams look horrible and take a lot of L'S.

Point i am trying to make is that for a school that made a BRAND of shooting the basketball and innovating that style of play in many ways we are now the school that is far beyond that while the other schools are doing this because this is how the game has changed and moved forward, we don't do that, we don't space the floor, we don't recruit shooters unless we get lucky (Herro,Murray,Monk,Booker).

[J.Jennings]

Here's Memphis and Kansas in the 2008 title game. There's a little token man pressure for Memphis that I see from watching a couple minutes, but nothing different than what UK does now:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lz7IsoOdHm0

Offensively they're running that circle set UK runs. A lot of ball-screening, which is a difference with what we see these days with UK, but the sets are similar.

The difference is that Memphis had a couple of elite players on that team. They also had a couple of really good shooters with Douglas-Roberts and Anderson. This UK team hasn't shown that it can shoot. Hard to run any set or have any identity when you've got clankers all over the court.

They didn't do the full court assault Rick Pitino press with trapping but they would press the ball being taken out of bounds and play you man to man 90 feet up, at least what i remember...

[J.Jennings]

I like Cal and will not hold anything against him, he has done a overall great job. Still before i die, i hope to see a team who moves the ball spreads the floor and flat out shoot the lights out of the basketball from all 5 positions. I do understand that having 5 shooters usually means you give up a little on defense but the game has changed so why can't we, we used to hang 3's in Rupp for every three made, what happened to all that??

[Joneslab]

They didn't do the full court assault Rick Pitino press with trapping but they would press the ball being taken out of bounds and play you man to man 90 feet up, at least what i remember...

UK generally "presses" the ball when it's being taken out of bounds. Hagans is usually right up on the guy on the catch. (Occasionally they pick up at half-court.)

It's debatable that that's even a press. I just think that's a decision made when you have a ball-hawking defender up front who can turn the ballhandler and chew into where the other team needs to take the ball to key their set.

Cal doesn't like to risk a whole lot defensively. Usually we're very soft in passing lanes because if you gamble and lose then you're playing four-on-five. This is why Cal's teams are generally not very good at stealing the basketball.

Ironically Ashton Hagans has a habit of gambling too much. Would be better served to guard straight up and only gamble when the guy is loose with it.

[Catatonic]

I dunno what you guys complaining about the roster want. If he'd just added someone to have a practice body and tried to play them last night you'd be on here ********************ing about how pathetic they were.

I definitely would not be doing that.

Role players are what they are. Also he did add someone from the baseball team just to have a practice player.

[Joneslab]

Regarding shooting one thing I would really like to see at Kentucky is a shooting point guard. We've had two in Cal's tenure here: Brandon Knight and Tyler Ulis.

It's obvious why this is: he likes guys who can drive downhill off those high screens. Generally the more devastating drivers are poorer shooters (though this isn't always true). But were I building a team, I'd always try to go with a point guard who can shoot, because I just think it's easier to get those clean threes off ball screens at the top of college defenses.

Driving relentlessly through traffic is an NBA skill no question. But it seems like in the national title game every year you see point guards who can kill you coming off ball screens if you don't hedge like crazy. I'd love for Kentucky to have that sort of players but it's been rare in the Cal era.

[Dwight Schrute]

But the problem is we are always getting destroyed by some no name one star recruit from another team, why can't we get bodies or players like that to fill the void and stick around for a while. I suppose none of those guys want to come here to sit watch for 4 years and get recruited over year to year so nobody wants to be here and Cal doesn't want them either.

In my opinion the way to go is to recruit your glue guys you can develop and keep around 3 to 4 years and then insert those top two to three freshman year in and year out to blend with a veteran team....

Our guys haven't bought in/learned how to play defense at this level yet. Seems as simple as that. That isn't recruiting, that's just having young guys that don't know their roles.

[Dwight Schrute]

I definitely would not be doing that.

Role players are what they are. Also he did add someone from the baseball team just to have a practice player.

I was talking specifically to Crazzed. I don't disagree with this but those role players wouldn't help this team.

[J.Jennings]

Regarding shooting one thing I would really like to see at Kentucky is a shooting point guard. We've had two in Cal's tenure here: Brandon Knight and Tyler Ulis.

It's obvious why this is: he likes guys who can drive downhill off those high screens. Generally the more devastating drivers are poorer shooters (though this isn't always true). But were I building a team, I'd always try to go with a point guard who can shoot, because I just think it's easier to get those clean threes off ball screens at the top of college defenses.

Driving relentlessly through traffic is an NBA skill no question. But it seems like in the national title game every year you see point guards who can kill you coming off ball screens if you don't hedge like crazy. I'd love for Kentucky to have that sort of players but it's been rare in the Cal era.

Over the past few years we have watched some great shooting teams win a title, that used to be us and our BRAND of basketball then it all changed. If it was me right now i would put Maxey or Quickly at point and get Juzang clock at the 3 and let Richards EJ and Sestina hold down the 5 spot. I know Hagans came back and he feels entitled but put him on the bench and make him play defense if he wants to earn his way back to the top....