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Just thinking out loud but maybe these will be considered by the decision makers:
Not allow it
Allow it
Sell through halftime at Rupp
Sell through the third quarter at football games
Or???
In any scenario there will be pros and cons.
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We are arguing different things. Or different approaches. Enjoy your beer at the games. If Drinking is a sin, I'm as guilty as any.
I do mine at home when I do, or at a restaurant when my wife drives. Not preaching. Just me.
Your point is for many or even most, drinking at a sporting event is harmless, perhaps beneficial financially to the University.
I disagree from my experiences that it detracts from enjoyment and the benefit is outweighed.
I've also had friends that a couple beers were the last things they had. Or someone in the car with them.
She was 18. He was 25. Just a couple beers.
bottoms up, enjoy.
done with this topic. Enjoy.Last edited by 40bill; 06-05-2019, 01:50 PM.Comment
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This is actually an interesting argument that I've never heard.
I think you're saying you drink at home or at a restaurant, but when people drink at sporting events then it's a different "type" of drinking and they're probably drinking to get drunk.
Can't say I agree with this. Seems like to me people drink at sporting events for a lot of reasons: to take the edge off nervousness, because they like the taste, because they're in a social setting, whatever. I know many folks who tailgate, drink, but don't get drunk.
You might be making the argument that what complicates drinking at sporting events is that the people will have to drive home. That's definitely something to think about, but I don't see sporting events as any different than any other social function. The people who drink and drive probably do it all the time.Comment
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What research would that be?
There are some Christian commentators who will put forward the notion that Jews in Jesus' day drank "boiled wine" that cooked off the alcohol or that unfermented juice was called wine. While there were most certainly cases where those products were consumed, there is a MOUNTAIN of contemporaneous historical evidence (and biblical evidence) that without the means to easily preserve fruit juice, the VAST, OVERWHELMING, MAJORITY of the population was drinking the fermented variety.
Still, In most of the ancient world, their wine was cut with water that would affect the relative ABV % but it doesn't change the absolute amount of alcohol you started with. Most uncut wine of the day was between 15% and 20% ABV. An 8:1 water to wine ration was common practice in the day, but there are also Roman sources that describe as little as 3:1 dilution. So when wine is mentioned we are talking about a drink that is between 1.5% - 6% alcohol. A modern beer is about 4% -7%.
A very good summary from a historical jewish source that isn't commenting on the "appropriateness of alcohol".
orThe juice of the grape is the subject of special praise in the Scriptures. The "vine tree" is distinguished from the other trees in the forest (Ezek. xv. 2). The fig-tree is next in rank to the vine (Deut. viii. 8), though as food the fig is of greater importance (comp. Num. xx. 5) than the "wine which cheereth God and man" (Judges ix. 13; comp. Ps. civ. 15; Eccl. x. 19). Wine is a good stimulant for "such as be faint in the wilderness" (II Sam. xvi. 2), and for "those that be of heavy hearts" (Prov. xxxi. 6).
The goodness of wine is reflected in the figure in which Israel is likened to a vine brought from Egypt and planted in the Holy Land, where it took deep root, spread out, and prospered (Ps. lxxx. 9-11). The blessed wife is like "a fruitful vine by the sides of thy house" (Ps. cxxviii. 3). When peace reigns every man rests "under his vine and under his fig-tree" (I Kings v. 5 [A. V. iv. 25]). An abundance of wine indicates prosperity. Jacob blessed Judah that "he washed his garments in wine and his clothes in the blood of grapes" (Gen. xlix. 11).
Bread as an indispensable food and wine as a luxury represent two extremes; they were used as signs of welcome and good-will to Abraham (Gen. xiv. 18). A libation of wine was part of the ceremonial sacrifices, varying in quantity from one-half to one-fourth of a hin measure (Num. xxviii. 14).
Wine-drinking was generally accompanied by singing (Isa. xxiv. 9). A regular wine-room ("bet ha-yayin") was used (Cant. ii. 4), and wine-cellars ("oẓerot yayin"; I Chron. xxvii. 27) are mentioned. The wine was bottled in vessels termed "nebel" and "nod" (I Sam. i. 24, xvi. 20), made in various shapes from the skins of goats and sheep, and was sold in bath measures. The wine was drunk from a "mizraḳ," or "gabia'" (bowl; Jer. xxxv. 5), or a "kos" (cup). The wine-press was called "gat" and "purah"; while the "yeḳeb" was probably the vat into which the wine flowed from the press. The "vine of Sodom" (Deut. xxxii. 32), which probably grew by the Dead Sea, was the poorest kind. The "vine of the fields" (II Kings iv. 39) was a wild, uncultivated sort, and the "soreḳ" (Isa. v. 2) was the choicest vine, producing dark-colored grapes; in Arabic it is called "suriḳ."
There were different kinds of wine. "Yayin" was the ordinary matured, fermented wine, "tirosh" was a new wine, and "shekar" was an old, powerful wine ("strong drink"). The red wine was the better and stronger (Ps. lxxv. 9 [A. V. 8]; Prov. xxiii. 31). Perhaps the wine of Helbon (Ezek. xxvii. 18) and the wine of Lebanon (Hos. xiv. 7) were white wines. The vines of Hebron were noted for their large clustersof grapes (Num. xiii. 23). Samaria was the center of vineyards (Jer. xxxi. 5; Micah i. 6), and the Ephraimites were heavy wine-drinkers (Isa. xxviii. 1). There were also "yayin ha-reḳaḥ" (spiced wine; Cant. viii. 2), "ashishah" (hardened sirup of grapes), "shemarim (wine-dregs), and "ḥomeẓ yayin" (vinegar). Some wines were mixed with poisonous substances ("yayin tar'elah"; Ps. lx. 5; comp. lxxv.9, "mesek" [mixture]). The "wine of the condemned" ("yen 'anushim") is wine paid as a forfeit (Amos ii. 8), and "wine of violence" (Prov. iv. 17) is wine obtained by illegal means.
So was Jesus' 120 GALLONS of miracle wine pre-cut with water and ready to drink or was it 120 Gallons of raw unmixed wine? We don't know but my guess is the former.Presses and Receptacles.
The process of making wine began with gathering the grapes into a vat ("gat"). There were vats hewn out of stone, cemented or potter-made vats, and wooden vats ("Ab. Zarah v. 11). Next to the vat was a cistern ("bor"), into which the juice ran through a connecting trough or pipe ("ẓinnor"). Two vats were sometimes connected with one cistern (B. Ḳ. ii. 2). The building containing or adjoining the wine-presses was called "bet ha-gat" (Tosef., Ter. iii. 7). The newly pressed wine was strained through a filter, sometimes in the shape of a funnel ("meshammeret"; Yer. Ter. viii. 3), or through a linen cloth ("sudar"), in order to remove husks, stalks, etc. A wooden roller or beam, fixed into a socket in the wall, was lowered to press the grapes down into the vat (Shab. i. 9; Ṭoh. x. 8).
The cistern was emptied by a ladle or dipper called the "maḥaẓ" (Ṭoh. x. 7), the wine being transferred to large receptacles known variously as "kad," "ḳanḳan," "garab," "danna," and "ḥabit." Two styles of ḥabit, the Lydian and the Bethlehemite (Niddah vi. 6), were used, the former being a smaller barrel or cask. All these receptacles were rounded earthen vessels, tightly sealed with pitch. The foster-mother of Abaye is authority for the statement that a six-measure cask properly sealed is worth more than an eight-measure cask that is not sealed (B. ḳ. 12a). New wine stood for at least forty days before it was admissible as a drink-offering ('Eduy. vi. 1; B. B. 97a). When the wine had sufficiently settled it was drawn off into bottles known as "lagin" or "leginah" and "ẓarẓur," the latter being a stone vessel with a rim and strainer, a kind of cooler (Sanh. 106a); an earthen pitcher, "ḥaẓab," was also used (Men. viii. 7). The drinking-vessel was the Biblical "kos." The wine was kept in cellars, and from them was removed to storerooms called "hefteḳ," or "apoá¹iḳ" (ἀποθήκη), a pantry or shelves in the wineshop. Bottles of wine from this pantry were exposed for sale in baskets in front of the counter ('Ab. Zarah ii. 7, 39b).
Varieties.
The quality of a wine was known by its color and by the locality from which it came, red wine being better than white wine. Ḳeruḥim (probably the Coreæ of Josephus) in Palestine produced the best wine (Men. viii. 6), after which came the red wine of Phrygia (Perugita; Shab. 147b), the light-red wine of Sharon (Shab. 77a), and "yayin Kushi" (Ethiopian wine; B. B. 97b). There were special mixtures of wine. Among these were: (1) "aluná¹it," made of old wine, with a mixture of very clear water and balsam; used especially after bathing (Tosef., Dem. i. 24; 'Ab. Zarah 30a); (2) "ḳafrisin" (caper-wine, or, according to Rashi, Cyprus wine), an ingredient of the sacred incense (Ker. 6a); (3) "yen ẓimmuḳin" (raisin-wine); (4) "inomilin" (οἰνόμελι), wine mixed with honey and pepper (Shab. xx. 2; 'Ab. Zarah l.c.); (5) "ilyoston" (*ήλιόστεον), a sweet wine ("vinum dulce") from grapes dried in the sun for three days, and then gathered and trodden in the midday heat (Men. viii. 6; B. B. 97b); (6) "me'ushshan," from the juice of smoked or fumigated sweet grapes (Men. l.c.); not fit for libation; (7) "enogeron" (οινόγαÏον), a sauce of oil and garum to which wine was added; (8) "apiḳá¹ewizin" (ἀποκοτταβίζειν), a wine emetic, taken before a meal (Shab. 12a); (9) "ḳundiá¹on" ("conditum"), a spiced wine ('Ab. Zarah ii. 3); (10) "pesintiá¹on" ("absinthiatum"), a bitter wine (Yer. 'Ab. Zarah ii. 3); (11) "yen tappuḥim," made from apples; cider; (12) "yen temarim," date-wine. Wine made from grapes grown on isolated vines ("roglit") is distinguished from that made of the grapes of a vine suspended from branches or trained over an espalier ("dalit"); the latter was unfit for libation (Men. 86b).
During the time of fermentation the wine that was affected with sourness was called "yayin ḳoses" (Yer. Pe'ah ii., end), and when matured sour it was "ḥomeẓ" (vinegar). Good vinegar was made by putting barley in the wine. In former times Judean wine never became sour unless barley was put in it; but after the destruction of the Temple that characteristic passed to the Edomite (Roman) wine. Certain vinegar was called the "Edomite vinegar" (Pes. 42b).
Fresh wine before fermenting was called "yayin mi-gat" (wine of the vat; Sanh. 70a). The ordinary wine was of the current vintage. The vintage of the previous year was called "yayin yashan" (old wine). The third year's vintage was "yayin meyushshan" (very old wine). Ordinary, fermented wine, accordingto Raba, must be strong enough to take one-third water, otherwise it is not to be regarded as wine (Shab. 77a). R. Joseph, who was blind, could tell by taste whether a wine was up to the standard of Raba ('Er. 54a).
If we conservatively presume that the miracle wine was pre-cut using the 8:1 water to wine ratio, and that it was the weakest concentration of alcohol. Jesus' wine is ~1.6% ABV making a "standard drink or 1/2 oz pure alcohol" a 32 oz serving. That 120 gallons becomes, 480 "standard drinks". A large gathering where most people would drink 1 or less "standard drinks". If we assume the Roman 3:1 practice the "standard drink" serving would be ~12 oz. 120 gallons becomes 1272 servings with most people being able to conservatively consume 2 or 3.
In either case, it is HIGHLY unlikely that Jesus drank zero alcohol. Does it make sense for him to be derisively accused of being a "drunkard and a glutton" if he were known for being the rare teetotaler?Originally posted by John Stuart MillRIP: Charlie Munger​Originally posted by Robert “Hoot†GibsonComment
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The available research on alcohol consumption, attitudes, and occasion, pretty clearly identifies tailgating and sports-related drinking in general as being associated with high-risk or higher-risk drinking behavior. This is different than say the common alcohol expectancy at a small dinner gathering.
The associated expectancies around different occasions really drive consumption behavior and what people experience.
That isn't to say that most drinkers at a tailgate are getting out of hand, but the rate of incidence would be higher there than at a wedding reception or backyard cookout.Originally posted by John Stuart MillRIP: Charlie Munger​Originally posted by Robert “Hoot†GibsonComment
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I wanted to let everyone know that I went to the Cardinals game last night (ended up a rain-out) and I had 3 beers. By a miracle and/or God's intervention I did not curse at anyone, fight anyone, throw up on anyone or run over any children or women in the streets driving home last night.
The local news is working on a story and interview to share this revelation with the world. I hear NBC Nightly News is also interested in airing the story.Comment
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^ Haha!Comment
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Realized now why I stayed off this site for so long. GoodbyeComment
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I think that's a good idea for me as well. Back when football starts.Comment
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Neither of you will respond to this, but what do you come here for if you don't want your ideas challenged?Comment
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Awesome news, now move the old money on the front row up to the second deck and put the common folk drinking beer on the lower levels of Rupp lol lol lol lol
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FINALLY! A glass of Merlot to celebrate a goal line stand!Comment
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