SEC to Allow Alcohol Sales

[Lighthouse]

^When does standing up for what one believes, which everyone has a right to do, considered crossing their arms and pouting? Could it simply be because you disagree? Which everyone has a right to do also. We will not resolve this question here but the discussion has been very good, especially during this summer lull.

To further extend the discussion, the excuse using John 2:1-11 is lame. There are many other Scriptures that instruct us to not drink. Ephesians 5:18, Leviticus 10:9, Proverbs 20:1, Proverbs 23:20, and I can list several more. And 1 Corinthians 6:19 also applies.

[Dwight Schrute]

^When does standing up for what one believes, which everyone has a right to do, considered crossing their arms and pouting?

When you start trying to force that behavior onto others.

[Lighthouse]

When you start trying to force that behavior onto others.

Please explain when I did that, and be specific.

[40bill]

When you start trying to force that behavior onto others.

Social behavior is built on that Dwight. That's the same argument used by sections of people against gun ownership or smoking.
Those have reasonable prohibitions as well.

[Dwight Schrute]

Please explain when I did that, and be specific.

Being against alcohol sales because YOU don't like them. I don't partake in marijuana but I could not care less how someone else spends their time.

[40bill]

I find drunk people annoying and would just assume never encounter any, BUT... The "no alcohol" position in this thread is... interesting.

If one doesn't want to be around drinking and all that goes with it, how have they tolerated going to a UK football game in the last 30 years? It is only one of the largest single day drinking events in the state. Do we HONESTLY believe that people who haven't been problems while drinking in the parking lot before the game are going to become problems by standing in REALLY long lines and buying $5 beers? That seems implausible at best.

This seems to be about one group of people who disprove of drinking, trying (and failing IMO) to come up with a rational, secular reason to compel everyone else to behave as they think people should. I believe some who have posted in this fashion don't even realize they are doing it.

For those who "can't see a good outcome from drinking" the obvious math is that FAR more people have good outcomes from their drinking experiences than bad.

Empirically, alcohol is toxic to the human body, addictive, and in small doses... benign. Keep your BAL/BAC below a .04 (or .02 if you are drinking every day) and you won't experience any statistical increase in an alcohol related accident or health problem.

As a fun theological exercise, people should calculate how many servings of alcohol Jesus provided at the wedding at Cana. I'll get you started, it was between 120 to 180 GALLONS. One standard drink of modern wine is usually 4-5 ounces at 12%-15% ABV. Most beer is a measly 4%-7%. Jesus and his friends had good outcomes at the wedding. (If we believe the Bible to be authoritative on the event that is)

Lol....always neat points in your posts, even if we disagree.
biblical scholars always have and always will disagree on scripture, other than Jesus is Lord. MY reading of scripture isn't not to drink, it's not to be drunk. Especially in a place where someone else could be hurt. A major difference. It's a bit easier to monitor that level of buzz sitting at a restaurant than at a sporting event.

anyone that has had family or friend addicted or killed as a result of drunken behavior by someone would rather see it in a more controlled environment.

then too, if you're at a stadium with fifty thousand people and a tenth of them are drunk, that tenth probably seems to be sitting near you.

[Dwight Schrute]

Social behavior is built on that Dwight. That's the same argument used by sections of people against gun ownership or smoking.
Those have reasonable prohibitions as well.

But those actions have effects on other people. Gun ownership has the potential to impact the safety of others. Smoking in public places can make it unpleasant for everyone at best, and negatively impact the health of others at worse.

Beer sales will likely have little effect on drunken behavior - the events described by LH and others in this thread involved alcohol already consumed brought in from the outside.

I would bet a tidy sum of money that very few people who display drunken behavior at sporting events were toasted well before the game started and not from buying stadium beers. If you want to crack down on that, have at it.

Social behavior is largely built on not negatively impacting the people you meet in your daily life. Not behavior you find objectionable.

[Dwight Schrute]

Lol....always neat points in your posts, even if we disagree.
biblical scholars always have and always will disagree on scripture, other than Jesus is Lord. MY reading of scripture isn't not to drink, it's not to be drunk. Especially in a place where someone else could be hurt. A major difference. It's a bit easier to monitor that level of buzz sitting at a restaurant than at a sporting event.

anyone that has had family or friend addicted or killed as a result of drunken behavior by someone would rather see it in a more controlled environment.

then too, if you're at a stadium with fifty thousand people and a tenth of them are drunk, that tenth probably seems to be sitting near you.

Liability insurance will almost ultimately mandate that special training be implemented to make sure it isn't sold to underage minors and that people aren't overserved. I had to take this training when I worked in the Kentucky Proud store in the civic center because we served wine.

[Dwight Schrute]

In all the time I've been going to Reds games, I don't think I've ever encountered a drunk person. I would wager that there's very little overserving going on because of the training of the staff and the price of the beers. It just doesn't happen.

[40bill]

But those actions have effects on other people. Gun ownership has the potential to impact the safety of others. Smoking in public places can make it unpleasant for everyone at best, and negatively impact the health of others at worse.

Beer sales will likely have little effect on drunken behavior - the events described by LH and others in this thread involved alcohol already consumed brought in from the outside.

I would bet a tidy sum of money that very few people who display drunken behavior at sporting events were toasted well before the game started and not from buying stadium beers. If you want to crack down on that, have at it.

Social behavior is largely built on not negatively impacting the people you meet in your daily life. Not behavior you find objectionable.

Drunken behavior has effect on others as well, though. Anything from the annoyance of a loud mouth up to violence and unfortunately fatalities due to diminished capacities.
I would also equal your bet that those going in to a game buzzed don't get better by drinking beer during the game, wouldn't you agree?
I would think not ruining an event for you or your family (parent, child, grandchild) by not contributing to continued drunken behavior would qualify as as not negatively impacting people you care for.

[mattthecat]

^When does standing up for what one believes, which everyone has a right to do, considered crossing their arms and pouting? Could it simply be because you disagree? Which everyone has a right to do also. We will not resolve this question here but the discussion has been very good, especially during this summer lull.

To further extend the discussion, the excuse using John 2:1-11 is lame. There are many other Scriptures that instruct us to not drink. Ephesians 5:18, Leviticus 10:9, Proverbs 20:1, Proverbs 23:20, and I can list several more. And 1 Corinthians 6:19 also applies.

I respect the post, as well as the use of scripture, as well as the stance, but I feel we need to put it into context when using God’s word, and using it to prove a point isn’t “lame”. In fact, it is no more lame than using verses that are not relevant at all to alcoholic beverages in moderation. These verses do not speak of abstaining (except for the Old Testament Jewish law about abstaining before going to Temple. I do follow that one but no Christians follow ALL Jewish law as we believe that Christ is the fulfillment of the law). The other verses are about being drunk or excess, and one of them talk about excess food in the exact same verse (which we would agree is also a sin). It is not biblical to say that to drink (not in excess) is a sin. (Or if it is I haven’t found it & I’ve read from Genesis through Revelation.) And with reference to Proverbs 23:20 and 1 Corinthians 6:19 it is also not biblical to say that the person smoking or chewing tobacco or stuffing his face or being lazy and inactive IS NOT a sin. (And I do believe that you would agree with that). I believe that we would also agree (or at least doctors would) that beer and wine in moderation have a positive effect on many people’s health, and either positive of no impact on the vast majority. While the stadium is not in the business of cutting someone off for overindulgence of food (that would be a lawsuit waiting to happen), they would absolutely cut someone off for overindulgence of alcohol. Even consuming some types of stadium food could be interpreted as contrary to 1 Corinthians 6:19 (not sure downing a funnel cake is being a good steward of the Holy Spirit’s temple), but where are those standing against the funnel cake or candy bar or cotton candy? I believe a well-regulated alcohol policy could have a positive effect on curbing drunkenness. That is my opinion. We can (as you said) respectfully disagree. My opinion could change after we see how it works during the (respective) seasons. The idea of selling a couple of alcoholic drinks to legal aged adults that are not intoxicated is not flawed or sinful. We will (or MAY) see if it is properly executed. If we wanted to use a scriptural argument we could say the love of money is the root of evil and they will choose the money over morality and curbing excess consumption, but we do not know that. Sorry for the theological discussion as I believe it is a secular issue as long as it is legal and doesn’t interfere with my faith or ability to make my own decisions. I know we all interpret things differently, but some things I think people twist to fit their narrative or what man thinks should be right or what they’ve always been taught. I attend and am a member of a Baptist Church, Which does not serve alcohol at functions. It’s not wrong NOT to serve alcohol either of course. But aside from the Church I follow Jesus and the Word and study and interpret it to the best of my ability. One thing we can all agree on (with a beer in hand or not) Go Cats!!! I will support them if they are the only one to allow alcohol sales or if they are the only one to deny alcohol sales, and I will support the right of others to disagree with me for whatever reason they choose.

[Joneslab]

I always thought the thing was more about drinking to excess and not just drinking. I mean didn't Jesus drink wine?

The Bible is a tricky minefield as we all know when it comes to 21st century living. If we wanted to live Biblically to the letter we'd probably be stoning strangers in the town square.

This is just me, but being a kind human being in the world is far more important than living spiritually. I don't really buy a whole lot of religion but some of religion's teachings are good for all of us.

If you're going to a sporting event it's probably a good thing to not get so plastered you can't enjoy said sporting event. That's about as preachy as I'll get.

[Dwight Schrute]

Drunken behavior has effect on others as well, though. Anything from the annoyance of a loud mouth up to violence and unfortunately fatalities due to diminished capacities.
I would also equal your bet that those going in to a game buzzed don't get better by drinking beer during the game, wouldn't you agree?
I would think not ruining an event for you or your family (parent, child, grandchild) by not contributing to continued drunken behavior would qualify as as not negatively impacting people you care for.

Then you need to take it up with people drinking out in the parking lot. I guarantee you there are liquor laws being broken or going unenforced out there.

And you're ignoring where I said that any liability insurer the university would take on is going to require training to not over serve someone.

[Spiritof96]

^ You must be referring to me, and that's OK with me. I had season football tickets for 29 years I believe, and the last several years I was in the handicapped section. I experienced offensive drunken behavior several times, and as I stated, most of the time they were our opponents fans, but a few were not. I always had friends or family with me including my grandkids, my daughter, and sometimes my Pastor. One occasion it was an obnoxious UGA fan who stood behind us and made fun of our team instead of cheering for his. I asked him to move along to his seat, and he cussed me out, so I asked an usher to go get security. Before they got there he insulted an elderly gentleman who asked him the same thing I did, and he tried to get the old man to fight him. I tried to keep this as calm as possible without slapping him silly and was able to until 2 State Troopers got there. He smarted off to them and the slapped cuffs on him and took him away. We actually missed almost a quarter of the game because of this character.

I was referring to several posters. Yes, you are one of them.

You have made my point about the current prohibition of inside alcohol sales failing to prevent the possibility of a negative interaction with drunks.

I think it unlikely that the number of alcohol related problems in stadium will increase by more than a single digit percentage with the addition of more alcohol sales.

As for looking to Jesus’ example being “lame”.... I guess that depends on how much value one places on learning from his example. YMMV. He clearly drank wine and I doubt he was encouraging people to sin at that wedding.

[Lighthouse]

Being against alcohol sales because YOU don't like them. I don't partake in marijuana but I could not care less how someone else spends their time.

Please please explain to me how my stance on alcohol is forcing someone to not partake. This world is a mess because none of us can abide by 10 suggestions in the Old Testament. God leaves our decisions up to each of us and even then provides us with a way to be forgiven and spend eternity with Him. He doesn't force Himself on anybody and neither do I.