"It Will Never be This Good Again"

[BJD]

If you're gonna trash Tubby Smith, don't do it by throwing out completely wrong information. That team won at Vandy and went on a 20-something game win streak because of its defense, not because of some offensive change put in. Bogans sprained his ankle in the Sweet 16 against Wisconsin (I was there) and played next to no defense against Marquette. Maybe Wade was unstoppable, but he coulda been slowed. The idea that Tubby 'stopped coaching' is laughably wrong and ridiculous. That season and the two that followed it don't happen without Tubby. The loss to UAB the next year was unthinkable, and the Patrick Sparks year was a rebound away.

Tubby earned some criticisms, but some of yours are ridiculous.

It's not trash unless you're willfully blind. And there's certainly no wrong information in there.I said we won that game. But it wasn't because of tabby's coaching. It was in spite of it. I get it, you love you some tubby. And you do have the tubby "if" game down pat. I started saying it in 2000 and I will say it now. Tubby will never take a team to the FF. The only way he gets to the FF is as a spectator. There's no "if" in that. Woulda, coulda, shoulda. That is the tubby legacy. That's fine for it to be good enough for you. It never will be for me.

Even the title team in '98. They didn't round into form until after the Valentine's Day massacre and the players called a player's only meeting and went back to playing the way they had been taught pre-tubby.

The players have documented that. At the celebration in Rupp Cam Mills took the microphone and said something to the effect that we need to remember that Pitino taught us how to play.

[The Bubba]

BTW, I was a big fan of Shagari Alleyne and thought with a decent big man's coach could have been special. My memories of Tubby will be that he not only won a championship but ran the SEC league and tournament undefeated, something that hadn't been done since 1952. It seemed to me that he recruited a few bad apples, had some bad luck and it got into his head and spirt. I appreciate what Calipari has done for UK basketball but if Tubby or anyone else had the teams he's had, I think the results might be similar. He does however, have the uncanny ability to get super stars to buy into a team concept ... that ain't easy.

[Joneslab]

BTW, I was a big fan of Shagari Alleyne and thought with a decent big man's coach could have been special. My memories of Tubby will be that he not only won a championship but ran the SEC league and tournament undefeated, something that hadn't been done since 1952. It seemed to me that he recruited a few bad apples, had some bad luck and it got into his head and spirt. I appreciate what Calipari has done for UK basketball but if Tubby or anyone else had the teams he's had, I think the results might be similar. He does however, have the uncanny ability to get super stars to buy into a team concept ... that ain't easy.

Alleyne didn't have the drive it takes to be a great player. Was told by a few people that he didn't go to class, wouldn't practice hard...was basically one of these players who just went through the motions on a daily basis.

[Joneslab]

Tubby's three year run in the early 2000s was his peak as a coach. After that, his recruiting was deflated. His general demeanor was deflated.

I don't think very highly of his tenure at Kentucky -- I didn't care much for his style -- but he led the program respectfully and we never were in trouble and we won (enough).

The last couple years really soured me to him, though, because he quit. So I quit on him. I think a lot of people have an overall negative view on him because of this very reason. He quit, Dwight. He would never admit it publicly, of course, but all you had to do was look at his recruiting, his refusal to fire those lousy assistants, his teams regressions. He quit and it sucked.

These are pretty much my thoughts.

I don't hold a grudge or anything. People fail at their jobs every day, and Tubby started to fail at his in the last two years. I could've tolerated those last two seasons if the recruiting showed any signs of hope. But when you're pulling in players like Morakinyo Williams and Adam Williams, all hope is lost.

I've seen a few UK practices under Tubby, Gillispie, and Cal. Adam Williams is the poorest player I've ever seen at any of those practices, and that includes a bunch of walk-ons. I knew guys at Centre who I'm convinced would run circles around him.

[KevinHall]

Alleyne didn't have the drive it takes to be a great player. Was told by a few people that he didn't go to class, wouldn't practice hard...was basically one of these players who just went through the motions on a daily basis.

That is exactly right. He had some good talent but lacked the love of the game and drive to make himself better. If he had that drive he could have made himself some money in the NBA. Wouldn't have been a great player but a good journeyman big man.

Tubby didn't like recruiting and he was too stubborn to change his assistants to find one or two who would go out and recruit like heck for him. That was his downfall more than anything. He liked taking on projects. Which is OK if you limit yourself to one. But he had three by his last season and that is not going to cut it at UK or any big time program. For the most part Tubby did very well here. It took an unholy performance by Marquette in 2003 and a double overtime heart wrencher in 2005 to keep him out of a couple of Final Fours. IMO that was just some bad luck more than bad coaching. His last two years just soured most everyone on him including me. He should have left after that 2005 season and his legacy at UK would have been looked at much more favorably.

[Dwight Schrute]

It's not trash unless you're willfully blind. And there's certainly no wrong information in there.I said we won that game. But it wasn't because of tabby's coaching. It was in spite of it. I get it, you love you some tubby. And you do have the tubby "if" game down pat. I started saying it in 2000 and I will say it now. Tubby will never take a team to the FF. The only way he gets to the FF is as a spectator. There's no "if" in that. Woulda, coulda, shoulda. That is the tubby legacy. That's fine for it to be good enough for you. It never will be for me.

Even the title team in '98. They didn't round into form until after the Valentine's Day massacre and the players called a player's only meeting and went back to playing the way they had been taught pre-tubby.

The players have documented that. At the celebration in Rupp Cam Mills took the microphone and said something to the effect that we need to remember that Pitino taught us how to play.

I'm not "willfully blind" and I don't really love Tubby. I never met the guy and have no emotional attachment. I just think you're full of it - you're passing off speculative hearsay as fact like it's some indictment the guy.

I think he did an acceptable job as coach for most of his tenure. I was glad he left, I think it was time. But the idea that he was some sort of unmitigated disaster that nearly killed the program but for players who coached themselves is utter crap. You don't like the guy, that's fine, but don't pass off bullsh as fact.

[Dwight Schrute]

These are pretty much my thoughts.

I don't hold a grudge or anything. People fail at their jobs every day, and Tubby started to fail at his in the last two years. I could've tolerated those last two seasons if the recruiting showed any signs of hope. But when you're pulling in players like Morakinyo Williams and Adam Williams, all hope is lost.

I've seen a few UK practices under Tubby, Gillispie, and Cal. Adam Williams is the poorest player I've ever seen at any of those practices, and that includes a bunch of walk-ons. I knew guys at Centre who I'm convinced would run circles around him.

Mo Williams...man what happened there at the end?

[Joneslab]

Mo Williams...man what happened there at the end?

It was desperation time.

Same thing started happening with Gillispie when he got a commitment from Konner Tucker.

[Lighthouse]

BJD, The bottom line is you don't like Tubby and that's OK because you have a right to feel anyway you want, but to come here and talk trash about UK fans being stupid, ludicrous, blind and stuff like that is a bit much. You trash Barnhart, Matt Jones, say Stoops can't coach and so on. Is there anything positive you like about UK Athletics? If so, let us know sometime, Please.

Every UK Coach is very visible, and they make mistakes. When they do, we discuss it at length here, but we also discuss the things we like about them

[BJD]

BJD, The bottom line is you don't like Tubby and that's OK because you have a right to feel anyway you want, but to come here and talk trash about UK fans being stupid, ludicrous, blind and stuff like that is a bit much. You trash Barnhart, Matt Jones, say Stoops can't coach and so on. Is there anything positive you like about UK Athletics? If so, let us know sometime, Please.

Every UK Coach is very visible, and they make mistakes. When they do, we discuss it at length here, but we also discuss the things we like about them

You are right that I don't like tubby. He was terrible for UK and he stole UK basketball from a generation of UK fans. He also put playing his son ahead of the university and then lied about another player's illness so he could keep playing that son. If that doesn't offend you then I would question your allegiance to UK just as you questioned mine.

Also, Barney is a terrible AD and this site is the only place where I read differently. Stoops is not a good football coach. I'm "positive" about those things.

As for what's positive, I guess in your tunnel vision to trash me you have missed that I've said UK is the greatest college basketball program on earth, that Cal is the best coach in the country and that UK is the best team in the country this year.

And I haven't said anything to any poster here except in response to something said to me. Again, your tunnel vision is showing.

Hard to believe you're an official when you only see what you want to see. On second thought, that's not all that hard to believe.

[BJD]

I'm not "willfully blind" and I don't really love Tubby. I never met the guy and have no emotional attachment. I just think you're full of it - you're passing off speculative hearsay as fact like it's some indictment the guy.

I think he did an acceptable job as coach for most of his tenure. I was glad he left, I think it was time. But the idea that he was some sort of unmitigated disaster that nearly killed the program but for players who coached themselves is utter crap. You don't like the guy, that's fine, but don't pass off bullsh as fact.

I expect the official to be along shortly and censure you for attacking me. Wait for it, but don't hold your breath waiting.

But while you're waiting, explain exactly what I speculated about?

[Joneslab]

I don't understand such forceful opinions.

We're not debating life and death. It's really not that big of a deal in the scope of things.

No need to go to the absolute wall on every single opinion you hold.

[KCKUKFan]

It was desperation time.

Same thing started happening with Gillispie when he got a commitment from Konner Tucker.

The difference is that people were pissed off when Tubby beat out Liberty University and got a commitment from Morakinyo Williams

However, they were trying to talk themselves into believing that Konner Tucker and his Band were going to be the difference makers.

[KCKUKFan]

You are right that I don't like tubby. He was terrible for UK and he stole UK basketball from a generation of UK fans. He also put playing his son ahead of the university and then lied about another player's illness so he could keep playing that son. If that doesn't offend you then I would question your allegiance to UK just as you questioned mine.

Also, Barney is a terrible AD and this site is the only place where I read differently. Stoops is not a good football coach. I'm "positive" about those things.

As for what's positive, I guess in your tunnel vision to trash me you have missed that I've said UK is the greatest college basketball program on earth, that Cal is the best coach in the country and that UK is the best team in the country this year.

And I haven't said anything to any poster here except in response to something said to me. Again, your tunnel vision is showing.

Hard to believe you're an official when you only see what you want to see. On second thought, that's not all that hard to believe.

How exactly are you positive about these things?

Based on results and results only, I'd say that the following statements are closer to "fact":

Tubby was a fine coach at his peak at Kentucky; his best teams didn't just win, they dominated. He quit towards the end (which was unforgivable) but he wasn't always "terrible for UK." Quite the contrary, actually. Re: the Saul Smith stuff you posted, I don't remember any of that, but I'll take your word for it and chalk it up with the Randolph Morris fax. Coaches are not infallible; they make mistakes like we all do at our job. Besides, it would be different if Saul Smith was Brad Calipari, but he wasn't -- he was a decent basketball player that had division one talent. He wasn't great, but he was rarely terrible, and some of our fans act like his career at Kentucky was this horrible thing, when statistically we've had many worse point guards, before and after. Tubby's entire tenure at UK is crapped on by some because of a mixture of these facts, give or take: he never made the Final Four after his championship, he followed Rick Pitino, his style of play was typically boring, those awful last two years, and he was black. The truth, however, lies somewhere else. He was merely good overall, and certainly not a disaster.

Barney is not a terrible AD. I've been one of his most outspoken critics here and I don't particularly care for his attitude towards the fanbase, but he's done a number of good things, financially and otherwise for the university. He might not be Tom Jurich, but after watching some of his questionable moral decisions over the past five years, I'd argue that that is a good thing.

Stoops is a decent football coach who seems to be improving with time. He's made some terrible game decisions, but he also has shown improvement this season. He was a first-time coach and should be given that benefit of the doubt. When the pressure was at its zenith this year, he showed that he could turn the team around. I think he can be a very good football coach with time, and while I was leading the charge to fire him after Southern Miss, I think the remainder of the season has proved that we should continue to give him time and resources to keep the forward momentum.

So, in other words, your "positivity" is probably incorrect in every facet. We apparently have our Ware Gigot... err... crazzed of the basketball board again.

[Blue Heaven]

When the time comes, it is Brad Stevens or bust for me. I hate talking about this. I am just enjoying this ride for as long as I can.