"It Will Never be This Good Again"

[Dwight Schrute]

I gave tubby all the credit in the world for the 1998 title. I argued against the people that said it should be Pitino's win. As time went on I saw those people were right. It was foretelling in the fall of 1998 and the Myron Anthony blow up. But tubby had the faith of the fans at that point. We did not know then that was how he operated all the time.

By 2000 it was obvious that tubby was completely wrong for UK.I started posting in 2000 that tubby would never get to another FF in his career. Not here, not anywhere else. I named him 7-UP, never had it, never will. How's that prediction look now? I got banned at almost every UK website, including this one under both it's names, for dissing tubby.

The man put playing his son ahead of the good of the university. How much worse does it get? Then he lied about another player's illness so he could justify the continued playing of his son. That's OK at Podunk U. It's not at UK. You don't see Cal playing Brad major minutes. And you won't. UK had never had a coach lose 10 games in back to back seasons before tubby. He followed a 9 loss season in 99 with 3 consecutive 10 loss seasons. 39 losses in 4 seasons. Then he had a 3 consecutive 10 loss seasons a second time. In his 10 year career here he had double digit losses 6 times. And one of those streaks he did with the number 1 recruiting class in the country.

I don't remember the year but we got totally embarrassed on national TV by Kansas. This was well into his career here. And he got paid around $30 million for his troubles here. Unfair? Yes, that part certainly is.

He also guided us to one of the better regular seasons in UK history. Had Keith Bogans not sprained his ankle, you will not convince me that team wouldn't have won the national title that year. Had Tubby come along at a different point in UK history, his record would've looked a lot better and he wouldn't have received nearly the heat he did early on in his tenure. His last three years when he completely gave up on recruiting are completely on him and he's fair game for that.

The question you have to ask yourself is who, at the time, could we have hired that would've been better? Especially by your own standard that we shouldn't hire someone who hasn't previously been to the Final Four. Those coaches just aren't out there in great numbers anymore, especially when Butler can go to two title games in a row. Your own standard eliminates Sean Miller, would've eliminated Billy Donovan at the time, would've eliminated Bill Self, and a bunch of other coaches. Basically at this point, the only coaches that could meet that standard and be seen as a viable candidate would be Brad Stevens or Shaka Smart.

Hiring coaches is a lot harder than you think.

[KevinHall]

No the last 7 years won't be duplicated. Four Final Fours,one near miss of a Final Four in 2010 and maybe just a good big man away from one last year. Only 2013 was an outlier. After Cal leaves someday UK will only have a merely "good" coach. Not someone who is as dynamic as Cal and can reach out to everyone in a way no one else ever has. Not only to fans but more importantly to players and recruits. You should never say never but I find it highly unlikely we will see the likes of someone like Cal again to head up this program.

[Dwight Schrute]

I don't even think we can take having a 'good' coach for granted. UK could easily hire another Mike Davis (who somehow got a team to the title game) or whoever the guy was before Ben Howland at UCLA.

[justafan]

Saul was a good deal better than Brad.

Saul was sort of a Julius Mays type. Solid player but never should have been the starting point guard here......

Everyone also needs to remember this - these kids all face a significant potentially-life-altering decision at 17-18 years old. If I'm highly recruited and UK and other big name programs are on the table, it sure would be an easier decision if I had a built-in reason to mark a name off the board. Saul's potential playing time was used against UK in recruiting. I forget the name of the player you all are referencing, but IMO, it was an easy decision to mark UK off. If he had signed with UK would he have won the starting position, no one can guess. Am I giving Tubby a pass because of it, no, but to say Saul would have played over a 5 star player is not a great argument. Saul played because Tubby didn't sign a 5 star PG.

Discussing Tubby is like politics, no one on either side is going to be convinced. If people can't be happy that there is a banner hanging while he was coach, that's on them. If they think he "destroyed UK basketball", that's on them. Tubby's recruiting system (basically the anti-one-and-done) is what it is. Not a good fit for UK and he moved on.

[justafan]

I don't even think we can take having a 'good' coach for granted. UK could easily hire another Mike Davis (who somehow got a team to the title game) or whoever the guy was before Ben Howland at UCLA.

Exactly - its like any other hire (outside of sports) - it can be a crapshoot. I'm confident that the vetting that was done with Cal will be in full force when he leaves. Someone hoped Barnhart would be gone - I am not so sure I'd wish that - maybe UK should hope he's here to learn from the BCG hiring mistakes.

The AD is just like the UK coach - they better be fully aware of the "culture" around UK basketball and unless they're already part of a program (Alabama/ND football, Duke/UNC/etc basketball) - they could make similar hiring mistakes. You can *tell* someone about the culture, but being in it and (potentially) making a bad hire are two different things.

[BJD]

He also guided us to one of the better regular seasons in UK history. Had Keith Bogans not sprained his ankle, you will not convince me that team wouldn't have won the national title that year. Had Tubby come along at a different point in UK history, his record would've looked a lot better and he wouldn't have received nearly the heat he did early on in his tenure. His last three years when he completely gave up on recruiting are completely on him and he's fair game for that.

The question you have to ask yourself is who, at the time, could we have hired that would've been better? Especially by your own standard that we shouldn't hire someone who hasn't previously been to the Final Four. Those coaches just aren't out there in great numbers anymore, especially when Butler can go to two title games in a row. Your own standard eliminates Sean Miller, would've eliminated Billy Donovan at the time, would've eliminated Bill Self, and a bunch of other coaches. Basically at this point, the only coaches that could meet that standard and be seen as a viable candidate would be Brad Stevens or Shaka Smart.

Hiring coaches is a lot harder than you think.

We could have hired Cal when Pitino left. I came to the opinion of not hiring a coach that hasn't been to a final after watching tubby be clueless about getting there. But I would eliminate Sean Miller even if had been to one. I hope UK never hires that guy or even considers his whiney ass.

I lobbied CM at the time to hire Clem Haskins. CM was hiring tubby come hell or high water. He wasn't considering anyone else and he wouldn't consider anyone else. Pitino lobbied CM to hire Williard. Glad he didn't listen to that one either.

Now we know to not hire someone that hasn't been there. UK is the premier job in college basketball. We would have our fair share of suitors if we had an opening. And more to build their resume before that day comes.

Donovan may be ready to come back to college by that time? Although I'm not a huge Donovan fan. But he would understand the magnitude of this job. I hope Cal stays another 10 years. I doubt he does but that's my hope.

[BJD]

We could have hired Cal when Pitino left. I came to the opinion of not hiring a coach that hasn't been to a final after watching tubby be clueless about getting there. But I would eliminate Sean Miller even if had been to one. I hope UK never hires that guy or even considers his whiney ass.

I lobbied CM at the time to hire Clem Haskins. CM was hiring tubby come hell or high water. He wasn't considering anyone else and he wouldn't consider anyone else. Pitino lobbied CM to hire Williard. Glad he didn't listen to that one either.

Now we know to not hire someone that hasn't been there. UK is the premier job in college basketball. We would have our fair share of suitors if we had an opening. And more to build their resume before that day comes.

Donovan may be ready to come back to college by that time? Although I'm not a huge Donovan fan. But he would understand the magnitude of this job. I hope Cal stays another 10 years. I doubt he does but that's my hope.

And that one good year tubby had, that was luck. That season started with tubby wanting to install the Princeton offense. It was failing miserably because you have to teach it and then let the players run on instinct what they are taught. Tubby is far too much of a micro manager to ever allow that.

Over the Christmas break the experiment was dropped. Then not having time to implement the tubby walking style we came out of the break looking terrible. We down something like 20 points at halftime at Vandy. Tubby threw in the towel and stopped coaching. The players just played and came back and won the game.

Much to tabby's credit he let them continue. That was never tubbyball for the rest of that regular season. Once we got into the tourney tubby starting micro managing again. We almost lost in the sweet sixteen game to Wisc, I think? There was no way we were winning that elite 8 game with tubby as coach. Bogans or not. Bogan actually played pretty well in that game anyway. But why wasn't Kaz ready?

But that's not hindsight either. I was the only one that predicted that loss at the WCF site. They were giving away a CD or something for the correct predictors of those tourney games. If you got it right your name was in a drawing. I was the only one. Never got that prize.

It doesn't take a seer to predict tubby. I said when he left here he would be fired in 5 years or less at Minneysoty. I missed it by one year only because they changed the AD and that bought tubby another year. That's one thing I will give him credit for. He is a world class grifter.

[J.Jennings]

It would have to be Billy D for the 3rd or 4th try or Brad Stephens of the Celtics, those two could handle this job and keep it going in full force. Whoever has the AD job can't gamble on the hire....

[Dwight Schrute]

If you're gonna trash Tubby Smith, don't do it by throwing out completely wrong information. That team won at Vandy and went on a 20-something game win streak because of its defense, not because of some offensive change put in. Bogans sprained his ankle in the Sweet 16 against Wisconsin (I was there) and played next to no defense against Marquette. Maybe Wade was unstoppable, but he coulda been slowed. The idea that Tubby 'stopped coaching' is laughably wrong and ridiculous. That season and the two that followed it don't happen without Tubby. The loss to UAB the next year was unthinkable, and the Patrick Sparks year was a rebound away.

Tubby earned some criticisms, but some of yours are ridiculous.

[KCKUKFan]

I can't say that it will never be like this again, because it's impossible to know.

It's safe to say, though, that it will be tough to top this run of NBA talent, Final Fours, and media blitz.

[Dwight Schrute]

I can't say that it will never be like this again, because it's impossible to know.

It's safe to say, though, that it will be tough to top this run of NBA talent, Final Fours, and media blitz.

Assuming Cal gets out of here without having anything vacated, I agree. It is possible that down the line we may duplicate the dominance, but having the type of talent we've had in here over the last 7 years will probably not be duplicated.

[KCKUKFan]

If you're gonna trash Tubby Smith, don't do it by throwing out completely wrong information. That team won at Vandy and went on a 20-something game win streak because of its defense, not because of some offensive change put in. Bogans sprained his ankle in the Sweet 16 against Wisconsin (I was there) and played next to no defense against Marquette. Maybe Wade was unstoppable, but he coulda been slowed. The idea that Tubby 'stopped coaching' is laughably wrong and ridiculous. That season and the two that followed it don't happen without Tubby. The loss to UAB the next year was unthinkable, and the Patrick Sparks year was a rebound away.

Tubby earned some criticisms, but some of yours are ridiculous.

Tubby's three year run in the early 2000s was his peak as a coach. After that, his recruiting was deflated. His general demeanor was deflated.

I don't think very highly of his tenure at Kentucky -- I didn't care much for his style -- but he led the program respectfully and we never were in trouble and we won (enough).

The last couple years really soured me to him, though, because he quit. So I quit on him. I think a lot of people have an overall negative view on him because of this very reason. He quit, Dwight. He would never admit it publicly, of course, but all you had to do was look at his recruiting, his refusal to fire those lousy assistants, his teams regressions. He quit and it sucked.

[KCKUKFan]

Assuming Cal gets out of here without having anything vacated, I agree. It is possible that down the line we may duplicate the dominance, but having the type of talent we've had in here over the last 7 years will probably not be duplicated.

It won't be duplicated anywhere.

Only when time has passed will people realize what a juggernaut recruiting job Cal did at Kentucky.

[Dwight Schrute]

Tubby's three year run in the early 2000s was his peak as a coach. After that, his recruiting was deflated. His general demeanor was deflated.

I don't think very highly of his tenure at Kentucky -- I didn't care much for his style -- but he led the program respectfully and we never were in trouble and we won (enough).

The last couple years really soured me to him, though, because he quit. So I quit on him. I think a lot of people have an overall negative view on him because of this very reason. He quit, Dwight. He would never admit it publicly, of course, but all you had to do was look at his recruiting, his refusal to fire those lousy assistants, his teams regressions. He quit and it sucked.

This is all fair criticism and there's not a lot I'd argue with. Like I said, there's plenty he did to earn his criticism. His refusal to recruit the type of players you need at Kentucky is at the top. Shagari Alleyne? Sheray Thomas? Brandon Stockton?

But too many people throw out nonsense, and that irks me. He did some good and won a title here, regardless of who recruited them.

[The Bubba]

I remember all of the coaches from Rupp to the present and except for Sutton and Billy Clyde, I regretted when they left. All except Pitino left on kind of a sour note and most wanted someone new. Rupp almost went to Duke after leaving UK. I think we are now going through an extraodinarily good period in UK basketball, not quite like Rupp's winning all of those championships so close together, but one of hope that we have a chance every year of a Final Four or a chance at a championship. It's going to take a heck of a coach to fill Calipari's shoes.