Rioting at St. Matthews Mall?

[Joneslab]

You're horrible at reading, then, lol.

I'm not talking about your comment. I'm talking generally and w/r/t this incident itself.

There are more blacks who live in the St. Matthews area than you realize - and many are middle class blacks, too. Kids don't hang out so much at Oxmoor because there's no movie theatre and no food court anymore.

I'm still dubious of this.

Movie theaters aren't hubs of youth activity anymore. Maybe twenty years ago. I'm in them often and yeah, there are a lot of kids depending on the weekend and what's playing, but I don't think the installation of a cineplex should add that much traffic. We're talking--per the officer doing this presser--a real explosion of activity starting in November.

Something else is going on here IMO. Either

(a) there's been some kind of social media organization, or
(b) the actual incident has been overblown.

[Joneslab]

MEANWHILE, THE GUY'S STILL TALKING.

Says that two to three gunshots were reported by people in the mall.

In one of the stores, "the employees were crying and in fear for their lives." One employee quit afterward.

[surveyor]

Movie theaters aren't hubs of youth activity anymore. Maybe twenty years ago. I'm in them often and yeah, there are a lot of kids depending on the weekend and what's playing, but I don't think the installation of a cineplex should add that much traffic. We're talking--per the officer doing this presser--a real explosion of activity starting in November.

Movie theatres on their own - probably not. I'd gather that theatres in close proximity to a mall or large shopping area within walking distance sees more kids on their own than those that aren't.

It'd be interesting to see what the percentage of teens 13-18 attending movies at The Mall versus more stand alone locations.

Something else is going on here IMO. Either

(a) there's been some kind of social media organization, or
(b) the actual incident has been overblown.

I agree either, and wouldn't rule out both.
​

[Dwight Schrute]

My company has a store in Jefferson Mall - the income demographics of that area may be more white middle class, but the mall population and our customer demographic consists of a larger than normal percentage of African Americans. What's happened is a large percentage of the whites in the area migrate to the east end malls, leaving Jefferson Mall (I have credit data that backs this up). It's not just the malls over there - that shopping center with Trader Joes in it on the other side of the St. Matthews mall has sucked a lot away from Jefferson Mall, too.

[Joneslab]

Defining how "bad" a place is is probably relative to the person's ability to take certain kinds of behavior.

I know people who just walk past unruliness, even to the point where they won't even hear blaring curse words that kids are screaming at each other. I tend to be more rabbit-eared when my kids are around, even though I remember being a kid in the mall and doing outlandish stuff. (Not jumping on cars, etc. But we did throw things at cars quite often around our houses.)

I've always thought Jefferson Mall was terrible, but really what it is is just different. Different types of families. Okolona is where my wife grew up, and they were very poor. So really when I make the distinction that the mall is bad I'm kind of talking about families just like my wife's.

It's a double standard and probably an example of white flight in action.

[surveyor]

My company has a store in Jefferson Mall - the income demographics of that area may be more white middle class, but the mall population and our customer demographic consists of a larger than normal percentage of African Americans.

I don't think that in bold has been the case for many years.

What's happened is a large percentage of the whites in the area migrate to the east end malls, leaving Jefferson Mall (I have credit data that backs this up). It's not just the malls over there - that shopping center with Trader Joes in it on the other side of the St. Matthews mall has sucked a lot away from Jefferson Mall, too.

I think more of J Mall's white shoppers have relocated to the east end residential areas. New home construction has moved that way for the past 20-30 years. New home construction in the south end peaked years ago. Older homes and lower income demographics in the south end than 20-30 years ago.

The credit data indicates race?

[surveyor]

St. Matthews Police: This is not a race issue - this is a community issue

LOUISVILLE, KY (WAVE) - St. Matthews police officials on Wednesday outlined a laundry list of disorderly behavior going back two months at or near Mall St. Matthews.

After that they described how Saturday's mall disturbance began and ended, and insisted that there's no racial issue at play.

"To paint this as an issue involving a racial component, it's not," St. Matthews police spokesman Dennis McDonald said. "This is a community issue. These are our kids. Whether they're white, or they're black."

St. Matthews Police Special Response Team Commander Tony Cobaugh detailed a variety of criminal acts dating back to October, telling reporters gathered for a more than 90-minute news conference that juveniles have climbed atop the nearby Whole Foods store, banged on windows, thrown rocks at passing cars, congregated frequently in large groups at Taco Bell and engaged in fights and other unruly behavior.


"The community knows (Saturday's disturbance) wasn't a one-night event," Cobaugh said. "It was just the biggest night of a set of events going back to October."

At least two incidents prior to Saturday were reported to have involved guns, including a fight between an armed man and another man in the center of the mall near where Santa Claus was greeting families, Cobaugh said.

Wednesday's news conference was planned in an attempt to shed more light on the troubling trend, which culminated in Saturday's disturbance that police said included as many as 2,000 stampeding teenagers on holiday break from school. That number has been questioned for several days, but McDonald stood by that claim once again Wednesday.

"That number came from mall management," he said. "They routinely estimate numbers in attendance of their mall. We didn't back off (that) number."


Cobaugh said two officers on security patrol at the Cinemark theater radioed that they were being circled by a group of about 50-75 youths. A dispatcher then issued a "10-30" call, which prompts all available officers to respond to a location immediately, and that's when the turmoil began.

Cobaugh added that it didn't take long for 55-65 law-enforcement officers from seven jurisdictions to respond to the mall.

He also said that as investigators interview store managers at the mall, they're often hearing things like, "My employees were crying. They were scared and in fear for their lives," Cobaugh said.

McDonald said it shouldn't be the job of the mall or the police to supervise teenagers.

"There's a lot of adults at home that need to step up," said McDonald, who shared that if it weren't for his own mentors when he was young, he'd probably not be where he is today. "Coach a team. Be a mentor. Be a role model. Encourage them to engage in activities.

"The mall is not your babysitter. It's a place of business."

[surveyor]

http://www.wdrb.com/story/30853908/police-mall-st-matthews-unrest-had-been-building-up-since-october

Better read from WDRB coverage.

[TrueblueCATfan]

Apparently there was an incident at the Jefferson Mall last night in the food court.....Kids were kicked out

I walked the Oxmoor Mall this morning...very nice......saw no middle school kids hanging around there.....mostly mothers and daughters and people who come there to walk

[Joneslab]

This was just released.

[Dwight Schrute]

The credit data indicates race?

In two ways - one is a Visa/Master Card estimate that looks at your spending habits and can estimate your race/ethnicity/income to a striking degree of accuracy. The other way we can guess is looking at census data and seeing which tracts our customers are coming from (once again, from credit data that ties your zip code back your census tract).

I haven't looked at the census demographics in a while for our Jefferson Mall store, and I haven't spent considerable time in Louisville in years. But I do know the trade area for our store in J Mall trends west into the west end of Louisville while the east end store has trended south.

[Matt Dillon]

This was just released.

So, are they going to question every teen that comes to the mall and ask for proof of age?

[Wonderstruck]

So, are they going to question every teen that comes to the mall and ask for proof of age?

"During PGR hours, trained public safety officers stationed at all mall entrances will check IDs of all patrons who appear to be 17 and under. Those who cannot provide a valid photo ID showing they are at least 18 years old must be accompanied by a parent or supervising adult who is at least 21 years old in order to remain at the mall. One adult may accompany up to four youths and all accompanied youth must remain with the supervising adult at all times. Those who provide proper identification demonstrating they are at least 18 will be offered an optional wristband. Individuals who choose not to wear the wristband may be asked for ID again by public safety officers patrolling inside the malls. Valid identification includes a state issued driver’s license or ID card, a military ID, a school ID card, or a passport. The identification must be tamper proof and include a photograph and date of birth. Announcements will be made inside the malls starting at 3 p.m. on Fridays and Saturdays, giving unsupervised teens ample time to complete their shopping and leave the mall before PGR begins. After 4 p.m., public safety officers inside the malls will check IDs of individuals who appear to be underage and are not wearing wristbands."

http://www.wdrb.com/story/30852891/mall-st-matthews-oxmoor-announce-temporary-policy-changes

[TrueblueCATfan]

So, are they going to question every teen that comes to the mall and ask for proof of age?

Yes and this is going to be very costly too

[CATHYnKY]

Yes and this is going to be very costly too

Maybe this will discourage mischievous tweens and teens from coming to The Malls for a while. Problem is, behaved kids will not be able to go w/o parents. That could have an affect on $$ spent. Sad. I would not let my tween/teen go for a while w/o adult supervision.