NBA Finals

[Spiritof96]

I was surprised not to see a thread about this already.

Anyone watching?

For my money it seems the level of play has been pretty poor. One team struggles to defend, rebound, and takes lots bad shots; the other team has two players who can play offense.

Additionally, for all the accolades Steph Curry gets, he is a turnover machine. Very loose with the ball. When he is hot, he is great; but for an MVP he has done a lot of disappearing in this series.

[GOCAT15]

I just don't see how Lebron can win this series by himself, it's going to take someone else having a big game the next two for them to even have a chance. And they need to play better defense like they did the first three games.

[Spiritof96]

I keep waiting for J.R. Smith to drop 40 in a game.

Despite the regular season record, I can't help but feel if Love and Irving were healthy, they would make hash of GS.

[surveyor]

Warriors got more horses. Cavs injuries have required more minutes from guys not used to more minutes. That (and the loss of Irving and Love) shows.

[Joneslab]

I agree with surveyor that if the Cavs were healthy they would probably win.

I'm not sure about the poor play. What Curry did in the fourth quarter of Game 5 was . LeBron is basically having to do everything himself and he's been unreal--I truly think he's the greatest of all time at this point but plays in such a way (pass-first) that he needs to have a lot of talent around him to win titles. Somebody like Jordan and Kobe just needs that one other great player and then a bunch of role players; LeBron, like Magic, needs a supporting crew. With all the injuries the Cavs just don't have much of a roster.

But I do think they'll win Game 6 and go back to GS. Think the Warriors crush them in Game 7 as LeBron has to be about out of gas.

[Spiritof96]

I agree with surveyor that if the Cavs were healthy they would probably win.

I'm not sure about the poor play. What Curry did in the fourth quarter of Game 5 was . LeBron is basically having to do everything himself and he's been unreal--I truly think he's the greatest of all time at this point but plays in such a way (pass-first) that he needs to have a lot of talent around him to win titles. Somebody like Jordan and Kobe just needs that one other great player and then a bunch of role players; LeBron, like Magic, needs a supporting crew. With all the injuries the Cavs just don't have much of a roster.

But I do think they'll win Game 6 and go back to GS. Think the Warriors crush them in Game 7 as LeBron has to be about out of gas.

I think the mental aspect of the game renders LeBron ineligible for any greatest of all time conversation. MJ, Magic, and Bird were miles beyond in that regard. LeBron may be the most gifted of all time however...

[40bill]

anyone believe it is possible LeBron will win MVP in a losing cause? His effort has been nearly a one man team. I think Jerry West was the only other NBA player to lose but still get the most valuable player award.

[teamchemistry15]

I agree with surveyor that if the Cavs were healthy they would probably win.

I'm not sure about the poor play. What Curry did in the fourth quarter of Game 5 was . LeBron is basically having to do everything himself and he's been unreal--I truly think he's the greatest of all time at this point but plays in such a way (pass-first) that he needs to have a lot of talent around him to win titles. Somebody like Jordan and Kobe just needs that one other great player and then a bunch of role players; LeBron, like Magic, needs a supporting crew. With all the injuries the Cavs just don't have much of a roster.

But I do think they'll win Game 6 and go back to GS. Think the Warriors crush them in Game 7 as LeBron has to be about out of gas.

IMO the greatest of all time doesn't have a losing record in the finals. Jordan was 6-0 in the finals. LeBron will be 2-4 if they lose. That isn't great. He, IMO will never be in the discussion of GOAT. No doubt he is the best right now, but I can think of about 25 players in NBA history I would pick before him. Outside of the Dukie, I would probably take every member of the Dream Team above him. He will never be considered the GOAT for the same reasons Marino or Jim Kelly isn't in the discussion.

Also, no way should he be MVP if they lose. The MVP should never come from the losing team, IMO.

[Joneslab]

Drexler, Mullin, Stockton, Pippen, Laettner were on the Dream Team. Certainly LeBron is better than any of those players. Some of the guys on that team didn't ever get to a Finals, let alone win one.

It's hard to compare him to other players because he's so unique. At his size with his skillset I'm not sure there's ever been a player like him. Magic maybe, but Magic certainly did play with that kind of explosiveness.

I do agree with the mentality thing mentioned above.

[teamchemistry15]

Drexler, Mullin, Stockton, Pippen, Laettner were on the Dream Team. Certainly LeBron is better than any of those players. Some of the guys on that team didn't ever get to a Finals, let alone win one.

It's hard to compare him to other players because he's so unique. At his size with his skillset I'm not sure there's ever been a player like him. Magic maybe, but Magic certainly did play with that kind of explosiveness.

I do agree with the mentality thing mentioned above.

I would probably take Stockton over him depending on the rest of the team. That certainly is the thing with him. There is no good comparison. I think Oscar would be the closest, but I was not alive when he played so I know very little about him. Magic played with more flash than LeBron mainly because his court vision was through the roof. LeBron has the total package in what you want for a basketball player and doesn't really have a position. He has an impact as a PG, but doesn't have the handle a true PG Does, yet he is too unselfish to not get him the ball to make plays. There will never be another Jordan, Kobe, LeBron, ect. I wish people would stop making comparisons.

[Blue Heaven]

Also, no way should he be MVP if they lose. The MVP should never come from the losing team, IMO.

Jerry West was the MVP in '69 even though they lost the Finals. There is no question LeBron has been the best player in this series. He has NOBODY around him and is putting up crazy numbers. He has sat 22 minutes in the series and the Cavs are a -13 in his abscense. However, if Golden State wins, a very strong case can be made for Andre Iguodala. He's been as good as Curry IMO. BTW, when West won the honor, it was first year of the award. No loser has won the award since which begs the question. When/Why did the award decide to go to the best player on the winning team? After all, the Most Valuable Player this series has undoubtedly been LeBron. And it isn't even close.
I'll even go as far as to argue that though MJ is regarded as best ever, it took him years to develop the game that LeBron had year one in the league. As an 18 year old. If you wnna go on MJ's 6-0 Finals record, I will counter that that really has no bearing on him being considered best ever. Bill Russell has 11 Titles. Hell, Robert Horry has 7 and has hit bigger shots than Jordan has. I'm not saying MJ wasn't great. He was. I was an MJ nut in my youth. But IMO, flashy moves and marketing genius doesn't need to be in the discussion when judging a player. Just one mans opinion.

[teamchemistry15]

I look at Curry and Iguodola and think that without one of them the Warriors probably lose in 5 or 6. If the Cavs lose you look at LeBron and say "without him they would have lost by more." To me that says that he isn't the most valuable because his team's outcome would not have changed without him. They still would have lost.

I understand your point about Horry. But, he was always a very good role played and never the main focus of the team. He has zero (I believe) MVPs. He won titles with multiple teams. When I look at Jordan and Russell (who are both top 5 all time, IMO) the entire world knew they were the main option. Jordan had a target on his back and still went out, put up jaw dropping numbers, won 6 MVPs, yada yada yada. LeBron puts up unreal stats, but in the end it has meant little because he has lost 3, probably soon to be 4, titles. Bottom line, he doesn't have what it takes in the clutch. GS came back from down 20 plus. Did a team ever do that to Jordan or Kobe in the finals? No way. LeBron is a great talent without the mentality to finish. If he had that mentality he would be guarding Curry.

[Blue Heaven]

Good counter but you proved my point that LeBron is the most valuable. Jordan had a much better cast than LeBron has this year. Pippen, Grant, Paxson, Rodman. Pippen was a multi year All Star. Who has James got? Exactly! The Cavs messed up big time by tading Wiggins but had not Love and Kyrie got hurt then this would be a different series.

[teamchemistry15]

He is more valuable because they lose by more? They lose with or without him. Without Curry or Iquodola GS probably loses. They are more valuable because without them their team loses.

Agreed it would be completely different with Love and Irving, but the entire game plan for both sides would change so there is no point in a debate on what would have happened.

The Cavs showed the world LeBron doesn't have what it takes to win in the clutch. At the end of the game the ball went to Smith when they needed points.

[teamchemistry15]

Good counter but you proved my point that LeBron is the most valuable. Jordan had a much better cast than LeBron has this year. Pippen, Grant, Paxson, Rodman. Pippen was a multi year All Star. Who has James got? Exactly! The Cavs messed up big time by tading Wiggins but had not Love and Kyrie got hurt then this would be a different series.

The Cavs have good players who are veterans. Blatt can be to blame in game 5 by not playing Mozgov more. He had a career high 3 times this series. I thought they should have involved Thompson more because GS didn't play big enough to guard him, see his offensive rebounds. Curry had an off game and got Delly overrated. JR Smith has 40 point potential and James Jones is one of the better spot up shooters. I think Perkins and Marion should have played more to give them much needed depth. Now, that is not what Jordan had, but they have a better team than people give them credit for. LeBron James is Pippen, not Jordan.