The Official Last Movie You Saw Thread (Part 2)

[Joneslab]

If JJ gives SW the Star Trek treatment he is dead to me forever.

I only watched the first Abrams Star Trek film but I really enjoyed that one. That said, I wasn't a fan of the original show. Before my time and never got into the spin-offs for some reason.

I have read Harlan Ellison's book about The City on the Edge of Forever and the legal wranglings and drama he had to go through to produce that episode. Ellison hated Roddenberry, but to be fair Ellison hated almost everybody. One of the most brilliant science-fiction writers who ever lived, though.

[Joneslab]

Here's that book. If you're a Star Trek fan I imagine that you'd be interested in it. I picked it up in Joseph-Beth back in high school and was immediately riveted. And I'd never watched a ST episode in my life.

The teleplay of the episode is in there, but far more interesting is Ellison's long introductory essay, which basically is a laundry list of his problems with Roddenberry. At one point IIRC it almost came to a physical altercation. And, as you're reading it, keep in the back of your mind that Ellison had MURDERED a human being once and was by all accounts one of the more vicious human beings to ever put a pen to paper.

http://www.amazon.com/City-Forever-Harlan-Ellison-Collecton/dp/1497642906

[Joneslab]

And I'm not sure when I'm going to get to see Star Wars. Out of town this weekend without my son, who I have to take to see it. Also: don't have any tickets. Probably will have to wait until second weekend and avoid spoilers like mad.

I did rewatch Star Wars Ep. IV recently with the kids. Amazing how many toys I had. Virtually had everything in the show down to the random droids and the sand people. My dad had a friend whose mom worked for Kenner in Cincy, and at one point--probably in '84, '85--she sent me these "prototype" dolls. They weren't action figures but basically Barbie-style dolls of Luke, Han, most of the main cast and a couple of the minor cast.

I still have a few of them. Last year I wondered if they were worth anything so I Googled: they're worth about a buck fifty each. Which probably means they weren't really prototypes and Kenner sold them--or at least mass produced them--at some point.

[Spiritof96]

I only watched the first Abrams Star Trek film but I really enjoyed that one. That said, I wasn't a fan of the original show. Before my time and never got into the spin-offs for some reason.

I have read Harlan Ellison's book about The City on the Edge of Forever and the legal wranglings and drama he had to go through to produce that episode. Ellison hated Roddenberry, but to be fair Ellison hated almost everybody. One of the most brilliant science-fiction writers who ever lived, though.

The first Abram's Trek was an enjoyable watch but he reliably uses pace and refrigerator logic in place of an actual story. It gets on my nerves. The follow up was worse. I also can't abide people running everywhere ALL the time even when walking would be more appropriate.

[Joneslab]

...but he reliably uses pace and refrigerator logic in place of an actual story.

Interesting comment. I think I see what you're saying here, not positive.

If I understand you I actually like it when this happens most of the time in films. There are filmmakers who are really understated and who probably don't worry about pace as much as character-building and inference and other stuff, but some filmmakers heavily rely on kind of speeding up and slowing down the narrative. The Nolan Batman films were big on kind of using these big, wide swaths of story with an intense soundtrack and sort of narrative shortcuts to present a kind of pastiche. To me it's effective when he does it simply because he gets the "feel" right, but I think when you do that the details have to be dead on for it to work.

There are other movies I can think of that try it and sort of just flail around. There's a Benjamin Cooper movie called The Words that uses these blunt suggestions and paciness to tell the story, and it comes off as really erratic and just strange.

[Spiritof96]

Interesting comment. I think I see what you're saying here, not positive.

If I understand you I actually like it when this happens most of the time in films. There are filmmakers who are really understated and who probably don't worry about pace as much as character-building and inference and other stuff, but some filmmakers heavily rely on kind of speeding up and slowing down the narrative. The Nolan Batman films were big on kind of using these big, wide swaths of story with an intense soundtrack and sort of narrative shortcuts to present a kind of pastiche. To me it's effective when he does it simply because he gets the "feel" right, but I think when you do that the details have to be dead on for it to work.

There are other movies I can think of that try it and sort of just flail around. There's a Benjamin Cooper movie called The Words that uses these blunt suggestions and paciness to tell the story, and it comes off as really erratic and just strange.

I think story is paramount. I think every line of dialogue should serve a purpose. Preferably two purposes with neither being exposition.

The audience should (without thinking about it) know what the main characters want and what is at stake if they don't get it. Those want's should make sense inside the internal logic of each character.

JJ Abram's is good at look, feel, and tone. He is good at getting the audience to care less about the aforementioned in order to service a certain experience. He heavily relies on a frenetic pace to accomplish this and to cover up for weak plotting.

I could go on and on...

Suffice it to say that I think the first Indiana Jones is darn near the perfect action movie (in spite of the ending) and the Pixar storytelling school of thought is pretty well in line with my own.

https://www.nyfa.edu/student-resources/pixars-rules-for-great-storytelling/

1. You admire a character for trying more than for their successes.
   
   
2. You gotta keep in mind what’s interesting to you as an audience, not what’s fun to do as a writer. They can be very different.
   
   

13. Give your characters opinions. Passive/malleable might seem likable to you as you write, but it’s poison to the audience

16. What are the stakes? Give us reason to root for the character. What happens if they don’t succeed? Stack the odds against

19. Coincidences to get characters into trouble are great; coincidences to get them out of it are cheating.

21. You gotta identify with your situation/characters, can’t just write ‘cool’. What would make YOU act that way?

22. What’s the essence of your story? Most economical telling of it? If you know that, you can build out from there.

[Joneslab]

It's an interesting discussion. I can see your point but don't have really any deep thoughts either way.

My only comment would be that there are certain filmmakers (and screenwriters) who do it one way and others who do it another and they can both make highly effective films.

When I studied film I saw stuff that didn't have any sound that was wildly interesting. I saw movies that had no narrative at all but yet somehow told a story. I saw film strip that had been burned and then put into a projector, and there was this whole violent backstory going on that was inferred but not shown.

That's experimental film, but there are also filmmakers who make very, very conventional movies--Spielberg, etc.--who get at the same kind of pleasure for me.

Abrams comes out of the Spielberg school so I think he should do pretty good with Star Wars. I agree with what Patton Oswalt has said about why the prequels were duds: Lucas removed what was awesome about the movies. I think Abrams, because of his generation, will be able to isolate what people think is awesome--the light sabers, the battles, the aliens--and give us a lot of that.

Story is this complex thing, but with genre I think sometimes filmmakers and writers over-complicate it. Just give us what's awesome.

[KCKUKFan]

Am I the only one who doesn't give a rat's ass about "Star Wars"?

And, obviously, I'm a movie nerd.

The first three were fine for what they were (the first was entertaining, the second was truly excellent, and the third was forgettable Jim Henson pap). The Lucas prequels were turd sandwiches.

I'll see this one, because I liked what Abrams did with his Star Trek reboot (another series that I couldn't care less about). But I'll wait about two or three months... frankly, I couldn't think of a torture worse than sitting around a bunch of dorks dressed up like storm troopers on opening weekend.

Bring me "The Hateful Eight" in 70mm, please...

[Joneslab]

Am I the only one who doesn't give a rat's ass about "Star Wars"?

I think so.

I'm fired up for this but I'm not going to go stand in a line or anything. I was hugely into the original three as were most boys of my generation, but I like them now as cultural artifacts more than actual great films. Empire is probably the only one that's a standout movie. But as touchpoints of my youth nothing beats Star Wars. I'm not sure anything's close.

I had a thought today about how odd it is that people go dressed up in character to see these movies. And yet there are people at sporting events with jerseys on as if they think they might get into the game.

Strange.

[Spiritof96]

Am I the only one who doesn't give a rat's ass about "Star Wars"?

And, obviously, I'm a movie nerd.

The first three were fine for what they were (the first was entertaining, the second was truly excellent, and the third was forgettable Jim Henson pap). The Lucas prequels were turd sandwiches.

I'll see this one, because I liked what Abrams did with his Star Trek reboot (another series that I couldn't care less about). But I'll wait about two or three months... frankly, I couldn't think of a torture worse than sitting around a bunch of dorks dressed up like storm troopers on opening weekend.

Bring me "The Hateful Eight" in 70mm, please...

Yes, you are the only one.

[KevinHall]

Am I the only one who doesn't give a rat's ass about "Star Wars"?

And, obviously, I'm a movie nerd.

The first three were fine for what they were (the first was entertaining, the second was truly excellent, and the third was forgettable Jim Henson pap). The Lucas prequels were turd sandwiches.

I'll see this one, because I liked what Abrams did with his Star Trek reboot (another series that I couldn't care less about). But I'll wait about two or three months... frankly, I couldn't think of a torture worse than sitting around a bunch of dorks dressed up like storm troopers on opening weekend.

Bring me "The Hateful Eight" in 70mm, please...

No you aren't. I know I won't be going to see it. I don't see how they can one better than the original. Just Hollywood's way of saying they run out of ideas for new material.

[Joneslab]

No you aren't. I know I won't be going to see it. I don't see how they can one better than the original. Just Hollywood's way of saying they run out of ideas for new material.

Except in this case you have millions of fans clamoring for the old material made new.

I don't think another sequel to Star Wars is like a Hollywood version of Starsky and Hutch or an Alf movie. This is rarefied air. Basically science-fiction canon that has been able to be wrested out of the creative control of a man who's had it under lock and key for almost half a century.

[TrueblueCATfan]

Am I the only one who doesn't give a rat's ass about "Star Wars"?

And, obviously, I'm a movie nerd.

The first three were fine for what they were (the first was entertaining, the second was truly excellent, and the third was forgettable Jim Henson pap). The Lucas prequels were turd sandwiches.

I'll see this one, because I liked what Abrams did with his Star Trek reboot (another series that I couldn't care less about). But I'll wait about two or three months... frankly, I couldn't think of a torture worse than sitting around a bunch of dorks dressed up like storm troopers on opening weekend.

Bring me "The Hateful Eight" in 70mm, please...

Nope...never seen any of them and won't see this new one

[Spiritof96]

Nope...never seen any of them and won't see this new one

If you don't mind me asking, how old are you?

[TrueblueCATfan]

If you don't mind me asking, how old are you?

Nope I do not mind at all.....I am 57